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Another hand from an article

  
 
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Fnord
Old 10-06-2005, 03:28 AM     Post subject: Another hand from an article #1 (permalink)  
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I'll post the article link in 24 hours or so.

Folded to Hero in the CO with 8 8

BN is loose/passive. Plays too many hands and calls too much.
BB is a loose/aggressive thinking player. Raises a wide range pre-flop and attacks weakness ruthlessly.

Pre-flop:
Hero raises, BN calls, SB folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, BN calls.

Flop (~4.5bb): Q Q 2
BB bets, Hero raises, BN thinks.... calls, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, BN calls

Turn (~9bb): 4
BB bets, Hero ???

Comments on the play so far? What's hero's plan for the rest of the hand?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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jmontis
Old 10-06-2005, 04:18 AM #2 (permalink)  
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looks too easy, i think hero has the best hand... or he's sandwiched between a maniac and a slow-playin BN

or maybe BB actually woke up with a higher wired pair, but the odds of that happening are still fairly slim
take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
 
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A'aag
Old 10-06-2005, 05:54 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
BN thinks.... calls
That sucks, but he could have anything. Then he just calls the 3-bet, which really doesn't give us any more information about his hand.

If the Button had folded to Hero's flop raise and BB had then 3-bet, this would be an easy call down. But BB's 3-bet after BN calls two cold looks like he has no illusions about stealing the pot. It looks like he has a hand. The problem with thinking laggy guys is they know you know this. I'm still thinking I try to just call down hoping BN doesn't wake up. The turn was a good card for Hero, I think he should try to show this down.


Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
BB is a loose/aggressive thinking player. Raises a wide range pre-flop and attacks weakness ruthlessly.
So...BB is Fnord?
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 10-06-2005, 12:52 PM #4 (permalink)  
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i think i call...raising opens up betting to BB again, and you'll have to throw away the hand. if the button raises after you call, it's clear he's been slowplaying since he doesn't care that BB bet/3bet the previous round and bet this round, so you can throw the hand away losing 1 bet.

of course, if you raise and the button folds, and the BB doesn't 3bet back, you probably have the best hand and woulda won the pot.

hmmmm....don't know anymore.
 
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koolmoe
Old 10-06-2005, 01:16 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Preflop: standard.

Flop: On boards like this, you are usually ahead. However, with the BB leading the betting and a calling station behind, I will tend to wait until the turn to raise as the next card changes my equity a lot, and it will be easier to induce a fold. The collective field may still have 12 overcard outs on the turn when I am ahead, but with a smaller pot it may be easier to knock out BN on the turn.

Turn: Raise no matter how you played the flop. I think it's a better raise with a call on the flop, but either way, the pot is big enough to try to chase BN when the relatively safe 4 falls. I think calling is the worst possible play, since BN would have odds to call with as weak a hand as JT. I would fold the turn to a three bet from BN, but probably call a three bet from BB if BN folded. Worst is when BN cold calls and BB three bets. I probably fold there, but it's close.

River: Hopefully BB checks the river. I want a cheap showdown at this point as I don't expect calls from a worse hand 50% of the time.
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euphoricism
Old 10-06-2005, 03:23 PM     Post subject: Re: Another hand from an article #6 (permalink)  
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I'd be less worried about Buttons raise (he's leading out with anything because he threebet preflop) and be more worried about the BTN's cold call, and tread real carefully.

BBs preflop threebet appears to be a resteal. I don't see you getting him to fold. BTN is a dipshit that might have gotten lucky.

Real answer:
Hero changes tables to get the thinking player and the cold-caller out of the 'steal zone'.
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A'aag
Old 10-06-2005, 03:48 PM     Post subject: Re: Another hand from an article #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
Real answer:
Hero changes tables to get the thinking player and the cold-caller out of the 'steal zone'.
nh
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jmontis
Old 10-06-2005, 07:13 PM #8 (permalink)  
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last night i had a similar hand, except in 2-4 6max.

UTG fold
UTG+1 fold
CO raises (weak tight agg, not very good though)
BN calls (loose passive)
Hero 3-bets with 99
BB (calls 3 bets, I didn't mind it)
CO calls
BN calls

flop J32

Hero bets, BB calls, CO raises, BN calls, I call, BB calls

turn J

I check, BB checks, CO checks, BN bets, I call, BB calls, CO calls

river 5

I check, BB checks, CO checks, BN checks

99 takes it down. After seeing that 5, I was feeling a river bet, but checked anyways
take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
 
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Fnord
Old 10-06-2005, 07:39 PM #9 (permalink)  
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I think you have to raise the turn there and probably fold to a 3-bet. A tight CO might fold a better hand (but his turn weakness reeks of big cards that missed), we're rather the BB fold and a loose/passive will often just call you down with trip Jacks (along with lots of other crap.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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jmontis
Old 10-06-2005, 11:02 PM #10 (permalink)  
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ya i know i played it passively, sometimes when the betting switches around like that you just never know where you stand.
take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
 
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Demiparadigm
Old 10-06-2005, 11:48 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Hero should fold because BN called 2 cold. Twice.
Without BN in the hand, calling down is the best option.
As it stands, calling is the worst option, raising to force BN out isn't horrible, but I think a fold is called for.
Even LAggy players usually have something when they bet strong in a multiway pot.
I would put LAgg's range at AA-88, AK,AQ,KQ
I would put BN's range as AJ,AT and JJ-33, maybe JTs or KJs

You are clearly behind this range. If you don't agree with my ranges... tell me what you think we should expect.
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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Fnord
Old 10-07-2005, 01:08 AM #12 (permalink)  
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http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_maga...009&m_id=65573

When I first read this, I didn't see how I'd get away from this for less than 2 more big bets. I thought about a flop call, but it just doesn't figure to be right. My first instinct is to raise the turn bet.

I think the key is thinking LAgg is 3-betting into strength and a player he know is going to take a wide range to showdown. He clearly expects to be called, right? Although, I really would want more details on the players than the article provides.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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