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Another blind def. topic - fight for 1st blind in new game

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metaxy6

04-12-2006, 10:26 AM Post subject: Another blind def. topic - fight for 1st blind in new game

#1 (permalink)

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I've started to defend my first blinds very aggressively if there's any chance to do so - say with Q9 + on anyone who has any likelihood of stealing/testing...
I just want to make an impression that its going to a dogfight if they mess with my blinds.
Since the first hands played in a new game generally go a long way toward establishing table image, it's the best time to show it. I like the results, so far.

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Ltrain

04-12-2006, 01:31 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Defend how? Calling? Re-raising? Checkraising Flop? Examples? Just curious...

"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.

euphoricism

04-12-2006, 02:46 PM

#3 (permalink)

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There could be some value to it. Maybe.

There is way more value in not getting a seat on the left of a blind stealer.

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ihategnomes

04-12-2006, 03:18 PM

#4 (permalink)

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I love defending my blinds with villians stealing range OOP

Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude

ihategnomes

04-12-2006, 03:20 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ihategnomes

I love defending my blinds with villians stealing range OOP

Quote:

There is way more value in not getting a seat on the left of a blind stealer.

Depends on how much he raises in other positons. If he raises a lot, then thats ok too, since we can be in the positon to re-raise and get HU up with him a lot.

Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude

euphoricism

04-12-2006, 04:32 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Meh. The true blind stealers are the 20-30/15-20s. I dont want them on my right.

If its a 50/10 who is raising my blind first hand, well, thats different. Its probably not as much of a blind steal. They limp a lot on the button

If its a 50/30, raisin my blind, well, game on!

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metaxy6

04-13-2006, 01:55 AM

#7 (permalink)

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I subscribe to the 'broken windows' theory of poker.
Yes, there are habitual stealers that you don't want on your right in any case. But, if you show that you'll give it up, then you are effectively creating blind stealers on your right.
Just 3-bet and come out firing at the flop. Obviously it's great if you can take it down. I'm not suggesting going on when its hopeless.
Clearly it's not the way to defend blinds over the long term. It's just the cost of 3 small bets to run this line and make your point.

elipsesjeff

04-13-2006, 02:14 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by metaxy6

Clearly it's not the way to defend blinds over the long term.

I disagree. You just have to learn how to play better post flop OOP with marginal holdings.

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metaxy6

04-13-2006, 02:35 AM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by metaxy6

Clearly it's not the way to defend blinds over the long term.

I disagree. You just have to learn how to play better post flop OOP with marginal holdings.

Oh, is that all?? LoL, that's like the hardest thing about limit -
it is for me, anyways.

elipsesjeff

04-13-2006, 02:51 AM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by metaxy6

Quote:

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by metaxy6

Clearly it's not the way to defend blinds over the long term.

I disagree. You just have to learn how to play better post flop OOP with marginal holdings.

Oh, is that all?? LoL, that's like the hardest thing about limit -
it is for me, anyways.

touche

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euphoricism

04-16-2006, 05:08 AM

#11 (permalink)

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I did this at the casino last night (and actually thought specifically about this post while doing so). I don't think they were "stealing" per-se, but I definitely set up my image as, "fuck with me and youre playing out of your comfort level".

Forcing your opponent out of their comfort level is a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE deal.

No one threebest from their blinds at the casino without a monster hand. I did it with J9o. And showed.

It absolutely helped. I hereby change my vote from, "it could help. maybe" to, "It will help, given the correct opponents."

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Fnord

04-20-2006, 08:28 AM

#12 (permalink)

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For what it's worth, I aim for the weakest/tightest image possible in live games because I just can't compete with the other guys for looseness. Besides, they pay off like a slot machine anyway and my tight image sets me up to steal some unloved pots. Also, never show a hand. The implicit deal is "you got to pay to see it." Don't give them a reason to stop making hopeless river calls. I got called by KQo unimproved last time I played because he had to see it and knew I wasn't showing anything I didn't have to.

My other big live adjustment is that I raise less often pre-flop....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

midas06

04-20-2006, 09:21 AM

#13 (permalink)

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By raising less often do you mean you cut down on iso-raising?

Fnord

04-20-2006, 10:22 AM

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by midas06

By raising less often do you mean you cut down on iso-raising?

Yes, also I'm less inclined to raise a hand like AJo/KQo as the 3rd guy in the pot and/or with pretty good position.

Lots of players in these games with otherwise reasonable starting hand standards will play all sorts of crap to a raise from the blinds, then take that hand too far post-flop. By keeping the pot small and not establishing myself as the aggressor, I get cheap information, am more likely to get in extra bets with the best hand on the flop, have room to make a tight laydown (tells help) and can get them to make really terrible mistakes when I catch top pair.

Here is a hand I played recently where my pre-flop CALL made me a lot more money.

5 limpers to me and I call with AJo on the button. SB raises, everyone is in for another bet.

Flop is A

GIN
SB bets, someone might have folded but I'm not sure. I raise, everyone calls.

Turn is a brick
MP says "you better hope your hand holds" they must put me on something like JT. Checked to me and I bet and cheer "DEALER NO DIAMOND". No one folds and I'm in love with this table. The stripper-looking chick with the fake body parts and expensive jewelry is a bit of a value-add too.

River is 2

GIN!
Now if only someone from EP had it.... checked to CO who bets. I consider a call, but pretty much have to raise. CO calls and K7

s no g00t.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

euphoricism

04-20-2006, 12:22 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I agree. I am always the tightest son of a bitch at the table. I cant tell you how many times people are just ass-afraid of me because I haven't played a hand in 30 minutes and i've suddenly re-raised them. I dont tend to get paid particularly well with that image.

The great thing about the boats is there is a set time period for play. The 'casino' is only open for about 5 hours. So I camp the shit out of 'em first 3 or so, rarely showing down a loser.

Then when my image is good and solid, I'll raise complete trash from the BTN, and show.

Suddenly people think, "God I'm giving this guy too much credit!" and start cold calling with absolute trash. Tighten back up again, but ramp up the aggression. Every hand you play theyll suddenly see as a bluff.

After the casino had closed last time, someone at my table came up to me and said, "Ive never seen someone mix up their play as well as you did." To which I replied, "thanks man", but really meant, "Mix up my play? No, I set up an image and capitalized on the way the table responded to that image." Its not like I was raising complete crap. My opponents just began to think that I was.

Again, the time constraints of my casino only being open for 5 hours is probably a consideration.

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