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dannyd267

08-12-2005, 12:53 PM Post subject: Am I good or do I suck (out)

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 64

***** Hand History for Game 2514036223 *****
0.50/1 Texas Hold'em Game Table (Limit) - Wed Aug 10 22:48:15 EDT 2005
Table Table 32449 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: borgata04 ( $14.50)
Seat 2: pokerdan267 ( $13.75)
Seat 3: mack441978 ( $9.50)
Seat 4: alpit ( $10.38)
Seat 5: NoFlawzPkr ( $9)
Seat 6: dfrantz111 ( $37.50)
Seat 7: mmass1 ( $34.25)
Seat 8: PW1CDC ( $25.50)
Seat 9: jakeandzeus ( $29.75)
Seat 10: stacyrock ( $6)
NoFlawzPkr posts small blind (0.25)
dfrantz111 posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to pokerdan267 [ 2d, 5d ]
mmass1 folds.
PW1CDC folds.
jakeandzeus folds.
stacyrock calls (0.50)
borgata04 folds.
pokerdan267 calls (0.50)
mack441978 calls (0.50)
alpit calls (0.50)
NoFlawzPkr calls (0.25)
dfrantz111 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 7d, 5c, 3d ]
NoFlawzPkr checks.
dfrantz111 bets (0.50)
stacyrock calls (0.50)
pokerdan267 raises (1) to 1
mack441978 calls (1)
alpit raises (1.50) to 1.50
NoFlawzPkr folds.
dfrantz111 calls (1)
stacyrock folds.
pokerdan267 calls (0.50)
mack441978 calls (0.50)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 5s ]
dfrantz111 checks.
pokerdan267 bets (1)
mack441978 did not respond in time.
mack441978 folds.
alpit calls (1)
dfrantz111 raises (2) to 2
pokerdan267 raises (2) to 3
alpit folds.
dfrantz111 calls (1)
** Dealing River ** : [ 2h ]
dfrantz111 checks.
pokerdan267 bets (1)
dfrantz111 calls (1)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $17.75 | Rake: $0.75
Board: [ 7d 5c 3d 5s 2h ]
borgata04 balance $14.50, didn't bet (folded)
pokerdan267 balance $25.50, bet $6, collected $17.75, net +$11.75 [ 2d 5d ] [ a full house, Fives full of twos -- 5d,5c,5s,2d,2h ]
mack441978 balance $7.50, lost $2 (folded)
alpit balance $7.38, lost $3 (folded)
NoFlawzPkr balance $8.50, lost $0.50 (folded)
dfrantz111 balance $31.50, lost $6 [ 7h 6h ] [ two pairs, sevens and fives -- 7h,7d,6h,5c,5s ]
mmass1 balance $34.25, didn't bet (folded)
PW1CDC balance $25.50, didn't bet (folded)
jakeandzeus balance $29.75, didn't bet (folded)
stacyrock balance $5, lost $1 (folded)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***** Hand History for Game 2514064570 *****
0.50/1 Texas Hold'em Game Table (Limit) - Wed Aug 10 22:52:14 EDT 2005
Table Table 32449 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: borgata04 ( $14.50)
Seat 2: pokerdan267 ( $24.50)
Seat 3: mack441978 ( $7.50)
Seat 4: alpit ( $7.38)
Seat 5: NoFlawzPkr ( $5)
Seat 6: dfrantz111 ( $37.50)
Seat 8: PW1CDC ( $24.50)
Seat 9: jakeandzeus ( $29.75)
Seat 10: stacyrock ( $4)
PW1CDC posts small blind (0.25)
jakeandzeus posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to pokerdan267 [ 4c, 4s ]
stacyrock folds.
borgata04 folds.
pokerdan267 calls (0.50)
mack441978 calls (0.50)
alpit folds.
NoFlawzPkr folds.
dfrantz111 calls (0.50)
PW1CDC calls (0.25)
jakeandzeus checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 4d, 6s, Td ]
PW1CDC checks.
jakeandzeus checks.
pokerdan267 bets (0.50)
mack441978 calls (0.50)
dfrantz111 calls (0.50)
PW1CDC folds.
jakeandzeus folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 3h ]
pokerdan267 bets (1)
mack441978 calls (1)
dfrantz111 raises (2) to 2
pokerdan267 raises (2) to 3
mack441978 folds.
dfrantz111 raises (2) to 4
pokerdan267 calls (1)
** Dealing River ** : [ 4h ]
pokerdan267 bets (1)
dfrantz111 raises (2) to 2
pokerdan267 raises (2) to 3
dfrantz111 raises (2) to 4
pokerdan267 calls (1)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $20 | Rake: $1
Board: [ 4d 6s Td 3h 4h ]
borgata04 balance $14.50, didn't bet (folded)
pokerdan267 balance $35.50, bet $9, collected $20, net +$11 [ 4c 4s ] [ four of a kind, fours -- Td,4c,4s,4d,4h ]
mack441978 balance $5.50, lost $2 (folded)
alpit balance $7.38, didn't bet (folded)
NoFlawzPkr balance $5, didn't bet (folded)
dfrantz111 balance $28.50, lost $9 [ 5h 7s ] [ a straight, three to seven -- 7s,6s,5h,4d,3h ]
PW1CDC balance $24, lost $0.50 (folded)
jakeandzeus balance $29.25, lost $0.50 (folded)
stacyrock balance $4, didn't bet (folded)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: this table was REAL easy to see a flop on. Hardly any raises preflop. Thanks for you feedback in advance.

DannyD

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outphase

08-12-2005, 01:22 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 949

While 2 hands is not enough to judge good or suck(out), I can tell you that in both hands, you had a lot more outs than you think.

Hand 1, assuming all cards are live, you had 2 5s, 3 2s, 9 diamonds and a backdoor straight draw worth ~1.5 outs.

Code:

Board: 7d 5c 3d 
Dead:  

        	equity (%)  	win (%)	tie (%) 
Hand  1:	48.8848 %  	48.58% 	00.30%      { 5d2d }
Hand  2:	51.1152 %  	50.81% 	00.30%      { 7h6h }

Hand 2: you had 10 outs to a boat or better, folding here would be criminal (hi fnord)... besides, you guys sucked out on each other

Code:

Board: 4d 6s Td 
Dead:  

        	equity (%)  	win (%)	tie (%) 
Hand  1:	74.1414 %  	74.14% 	00.00%      { 4c4s }
Hand  2:	25.8586 %  	25.86% 	00.00%      { 7s5h }

Board: 4d 6s Td 3h 
Dead:  

        	equity (%)  	win (%)	tie (%) 
Hand  1:	22.7273 %  	22.73% 	00.00%      { 4c4s }
Hand  2:	77.2727 %  	77.27% 	00.00%      { 7s5h }

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambchopdc

Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.

08-12-2005, 01:52 PM

#3 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

stopped reading after you called with 25s

TylerK

08-12-2005, 02:02 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME

Posts: 1,791

You suck preflop, but other than that it's fine.

TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol

euphoricism

08-12-2005, 02:06 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Both of these should have been folded preflop.

That said, hand 1, you can't raise him with second pair unless you know he has absolute crap. He then threebet you. You were in horrible horrible shape. But as someone else said, you did have a good bit of outs.

Edit: I didnt see the flush draw there, you're going to win this hand about 50% of the time, you're getting more than 2:1 on your money, so jam the hell out of him. Well played.

Second hand was well played, but you really want more people in front of you without a raise to play these baby pairs. You won't hit them very often, and you need to guarentee a fairly good sized payday when you do to make up for the misses.

TylerK

08-12-2005, 02:14 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME

Posts: 1,791

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

That said, hand 1, you can't raise him with second pair unless you know he has absolute crap.

Not raising here once you're in this mess would be horrible.

TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol

dannyd267

08-12-2005, 02:50 PM Post subject: thanks

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 64

thanks for the critiques guys. I know I am far from the best player but I have been learning to play alot better from reading these posts. I do know better than playing 25s but the table was really loose and people RARELY raised preflop so seeing a flop was relatively cheap. Yes, I did get lucky on the flop but I think I played it well after.

On the second hand, I thought small pocket pairs were great to stay on just to see a flop if it was cheap. I hit my trips and went from there. If a four wouldn't have hit, that would be an easy fold.

Another question (newbie). What do you mean when you say "live" cards.

Thanks guys
DannyD

08-12-2005, 03:12 PM

#8 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

No, you don't understand. Read small stakes hold'em by sklansky et al. What you're doing is you're putting DEAD MONEY into the pot. Your hand will only win say a four dollar pot ten percent of the time on average. That means that ten cents of your original call is up for grabs. Every time you play that hand you give up those ten cents. So the act of calling preflop is -10c EV

a500lbgorilla

08-12-2005, 04:47 PM

#9 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

What pocket pairs do we raise with in EP in the FTR limit forum?

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

TylerK

08-12-2005, 04:55 PM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME

Posts: 1,791

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

What pocket pairs do we raise with in EP in the FTR limit forum?

-'rilla

I dunno about "we" but I can speak for myself.

Depends on the table, usually no less than 77 at a full game.

At a standard loose game, I'm probably open limping 88-22 from EP. Though I will often fold 44-22 UTG and UTG+1.

TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol

08-12-2005, 05:12 PM

#11 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

I like to limp with pocket pairs up to nines... just too many callers at my limits to expect to have your nines hold up
but it's usually worth it to take a quick look at the flop and whether or not you made trips

chardrian

08-12-2005, 05:15 PM

#12 (permalink)

I rarely,if ever, get pms

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 4,524

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

What pocket pairs do we raise with in EP in the FTR limit forum?

-'rilla

In a ten player ring game (which I hardly ever play) I open-limp with 77 and below at a loose passive table. I open raise 88 and higher.

At a 5 player max table (where you are much more likely to find me) it's either fold or raise (I raise way more than I fold) to open with 66 and below (hey this site done learned me soumtin after all). And I open raise with 77 and higher everytime.

Fnord

08-12-2005, 07:34 PM

#13 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

What pocket pairs do we raise with in EP in the FTR limit forum?

I'll play 66 and higher in any game (often for a raise.) I really should consider tightening this to 77. In a loose passive game I'm limping any small poker pair. In a TAggy game (with just a sucker or two at the table) the smaller pairs usually hit the muck until it gets to be around blind war time...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

A'aag

08-13-2005, 01:25 AM

#14 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Loyal son of Rochester

Posts: 172

It's interesting to see the differing opinions on this. Personally, I don't open with less than 77 unless I'm in LP in which case I open raise any pair. 77 and up I open raise with everywhere but UTG/UTG+1, where I usually limp 77 and 88 and sometimes 99. I'm talking about full ring here.

Gatlin Dan

08-13-2005, 03:58 PM

#15 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Wild Bill's Backyard

Posts: 504

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'aag

I think the difference in opinion here is largely due to the range of limits that different people play. The optimal play of the pocket pair depends on a lot of factors.

Someone who gets in a habit of always's and never's when playing pocket pairs in limit games, will see markedly worse results.

"A lot of fortunes are made on what you don't play."--"Miami" John Cernuto

face

08-13-2005, 04:45 PM

#16 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 187

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

If his hand won a 4 dollar pot 10% of the time, calling .10 earns has a positive EV of .30.

A'aag

08-13-2005, 05:35 PM

#17 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Loyal son of Rochester

Posts: 172

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan

Someone who gets in a habit of always's and never's when playing poker, will see markedly worse results.

I agree so much I felt the need to FYP.

08-13-2005, 06:17 PM

#18 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by face

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

If his hand won a 4 dollar pot 10% of the time, calling .10 earns has a positive EV of .30.

He called fifty cents.

face

08-13-2005, 09:10 PM

#19 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 187

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by face

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

If his hand won a 4 dollar pot 10% of the time, calling .10 earns has a positive EV of .30.

He called fifty cents.

I need to learn how to read.
<---- asshat

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