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iceit
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03-07-2007, 04:00 PM
Post subject: AKs. call or raise the flop
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 28
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the situation is this. I have Asks in middle position. UTG limps and it is folded to me. I raise and the CO and button call. Everyone folds and UTG calls.
the flop is 4s Qd 9s.
UTG bets. Now its up to me. I have overs with the nut flush draw. Do I raise or do I call. and why?
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Nehmer
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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Raise, you might be able to free up some of your outs by getting CO or button to fold A9, K9, A4, heck maybe even KQ depending on the types of players they are. At this point, the pot is already getting somewhat large and you want to do what it takes to increase the chances of you winning it. Also, if you manage to get CO and button to both fold, you open up the chance of a free river if you miss the turn.
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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i call to induce overcalls and build a bigger pot for my FD. you are probably reverse dominated if you hit an overcard.
ChezJ
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iceit
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 28
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChezJ
i call to induce overcalls and build a bigger pot for my FD. you are probably reverse dominated if you hit an overcard.
ChezJ
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is that the most profitable play longterm?
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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I raise. First, your hand is fairly strong and you have a lot of multiway equity, so your raise has clear value. Second, you should be able to get a free river card. Third, if the players behind you fold to the raise, they typically did not have hands with which they would have lost a lot of money if you had completed your hand with them in the pot anyways. Ideally, you want the players behind you to put a lot of money in the pot with hands like smaller flush draws or J-T.
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
I raise. First, your hand is fairly strong and you have a lot of multiway equity, so your raise has clear value. Second, you should be able to get a free river card. Third, if the players behind you fold to the raise, they typically did not have hands with which they would have lost a lot of money if you had completed your hand with them in the pot anyways. Ideally, you want the players behind you to put a lot of money in the pot with hands like smaller flush draws or J-T.
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And what do you do on the turn if your raise gets called by the LP guys?
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OVER_under
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Anderson Sc
Posts: 26
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChezJ
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
I raise. First, your hand is fairly strong and you have a lot of multiway equity, so your raise has clear value. Second, you should be able to get a free river card. Third, if the players behind you fold to the raise, they typically did not have hands with which they would have lost a lot of money if you had completed your hand with them in the pot anyways. Ideally, you want the players behind you to put a lot of money in the pot with hands like smaller flush draws or J-T.
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And what do you do on the turn if your raise gets called by the LP guys? |
Raise again. Sometimes u will miss both your overs and your flush, but when I'm ever in this spot I will always raise. Sometimes you will miss and sometimes you will hit. I do however think in the long run this play will be more profitable.
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outphase
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 949
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by OVER_under
Raise again. Sometimes u will miss both your overs and your flush, but when I'm ever in this spot I will always raise. Sometimes you will miss and sometimes you will hit. I do however think in the long run this play will be more profitable.
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You wouldn't just call the UTG bet? I would think raising the turn is leaky.
Just betting the turn is a different story.
(Verify your terminology)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
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Dean_Letham
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by outphase
Quote:
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Originally Posted by OVER_under
Raise again. Sometimes u will miss both your overs and your flush, but when I'm ever in this spot I will always raise. Sometimes you will miss and sometimes you will hit. I do however think in the long run this play will be more profitable.
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You wouldn't just call the UTG bet? I would think raising the turn is leaky.
Just betting the turn is a different story.
(Verify your terminology) |
Raising the turn is not leaky for a couple of reasons,
If you raise pre flop then your opponents will put you on a big hand maybe a medium pocket pair, when the flop comes down with a possible flush draw and you raise again then your opponent can put you on a couple of hands, he can put you on top pair with ace queen pre flop, or a set or even ace king with the flush draw.......
Now they call your raise on the flop and you miss on the turn and some1 bets out at you....you have to raise for 2 reasons, if you call your opponent will put you on the draw and if you miss again they will take the pot on the end with a bet, also by raising again it shows massive strengh and your opponents will be weary, you have raised pre flop on the flop and the turn and your opponents go through the story of the hand............if it was me i would have to put the player on a set of 4's or 9's..........the other advantage of raising is that if you hit your flush on the river you can then check because the player will then think you had the set and were scared of the last card and then you can check raise as he will sure bet and then you maximise the profit.......
However, the question is what is the most profitible on the long run............... it's a tricky question....it comes down to a couple of things.............the players you are playing with? the level ?
Are you playing at a solid table? Is it small limits with bad players etc?
IMO if you are at a low limit table and there is always a lot of action then the aggressive play will be more profitible because they will call rasises with lower hands than a rock would.
If you are playing at a solid table then i would advise that if you dont get rid of them on the flop with a raise and you miss turn then to check or call on turn to see if you hit and if you dont then get out of there.
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OVER_under
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Anderson Sc
Posts: 26
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[quote="Dean_Letham"]
Quote:
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Originally Posted by outphase
Quote:
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Originally Posted by OVER_under
Raise again. Sometimes u will miss both your overs and your flush, but when I'm ever in this spot I will always raise. Sometimes you will miss and sometimes you will hit. I do however think in the long run this play will be more profitable.
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You wouldn't just call the UTG bet? I would think raising the turn is leaky.
Just betting the turn is a different story.
(Verify your terminology) |
Raising the turn is not leaky for a couple of reasons,
If you raise pre flop then your opponents will put you on a big hand maybe a medium pocket pair, when the flop comes down with a possible flush draw and you raise again then your opponent can put you on a couple of hands, he can put you on top pair with ace queen pre flop, or a set or even ace king with the flush draw.......
Now they call your raise on the flop and you miss on the turn and some1 bets out at you....you have to raise for 2 reasons, if you call your opponent will put you on the draw and if you miss again they will take the pot on the end with a bet, also by raising again it shows massive strengh and your opponents will be weary, you have raised pre flop on the flop and the turn and your opponents go through the story of the hand............if it was me i would have to put the player on a set of 4's or 9's..........the other advantage of raising is that if you hit your flush on the river you can then check because the player will then think you had the set and were scared of the last card and then you can check raise as he will sure bet and then you maximise the profit.......
My point exactly. Just not so sure about the being good, but not being good as you line. Wanna play? 
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Tldr...
Error on the side of aggression.
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