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AKo out of position

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Lance

03-24-2009, 04:37 PM Post subject: AKo out of position

#1 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 210

Limit Hold'em, (6 handed)

Villain is 80/20/1.5 after 5 hands...it is not so many hands but it tells us he played 4 from last 5 hands. Nevertless i feel, i have pot odds to call every street (hoping i am not against AT, AJ). On the river it is tough decision to call.
I beat hands like AQc, KQ and there is a teoretical chance to split the pot.
Maybe i could checkraise the flop, maybe i could call raise on the flop and fold the hand if the turn is UI.
Probably it was terrible play, too many cold calling here. My concern is how to play this flop.

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K

, A

Hero raises, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero caps, CO calls

Flop: (9.5 SB) 10

, 3

, 4

(2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls

Turn: (6.75 BB) J

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls

River: (8.75 BB) 8

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls

Total pot: (10.75 BB)

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe" (Albert Einstein)

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LawDude

03-24-2009, 06:19 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 940

I don't think you have enough information on your villain to constitute a read. Yes, he voluntarily bet 4 out of his 5 hands. But what did he have? Would it change your mind if 3 out of those 4 were small pocket pairs? Did he show down any of those hands? Were you observing his play or just looking at your heads up display?

As Ralph Kiner used to say, statistics are like bikinis. They show you a lot, but they don't show you everything.

So let's put CO on a standard pre-flop 3-betting range. He has AA-99 AK-AQ AJs-A8s KQs-KJs QJs.

Now he raises the flop. Not going to do that without a hand top pair or better or a draw. So his range is now AA-TT, ATs, KcQc, KcJc, QcJc.

He bets the turn after you check. He isn't going to do that with a draw. So now his range is AA-TT, ATs.

River doesn't change anything.

Conclusion. You can only beat a bluff. Why are you calling the river?

Lance

03-24-2009, 07:05 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 210

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawDude

Conclusion. You can only beat a bluff. Why are you calling the river?

I definitely put him on bluff.
What is more probably ? Did he catch 4 playable hands and is going to play 5th from 6hands or he is a tard ?

It seems folding on the river is most logical anyway.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe" (Albert Einstein)

LawDude

03-24-2009, 07:22 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 940

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lance

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawDude

Conclusion. You can only beat a bluff. Why are you calling the river?

I definitely put him on bluff.
What is more probably ? Did he catch 4 playable hands and is going to play 5th from 6hands or he is a tard ?

It seems folding on the river is most logical anyway.

6 hands is way too small a sample. Now, if you had watched him showdown trash a couple of times, that would be very different, but just based on the statistics, you really don't know. I've drawn 4 or 5 playable hands in a row before. Haven't you?

So I just wouldn't make any assumptions based on small sample sizes. Until you have more data, you need to either be personally observing the table or putting villains on relatively standard ranges.

One last observation. If you REALLY think Villain is bluffing (which I don't think was warranted here based on the limited data), wouldn't the correct river play be a bet or check-raise, not a check-call? That way, you not only can take down the pot if you are ahead but you also get some potential fold equity if Villain is playing something like middle pair.

Lance

03-24-2009, 07:54 PM

#5 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 210

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawDude

One last observation. If you REALLY think Villain is bluffing (which I don't think was warranted here based on the limited data), wouldn't the correct river play be a bet or check-raise, not a check-call? That way, you not only can take down the pot if you are ahead but you also get some potential fold equity if Villain is playing something like middle pair.

I dont think so, i mean this kind of (loose) player is not going to fold a pair for the river bet.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe" (Albert Einstein)

Chopper

03-24-2009, 09:34 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

meh. you got married to AK.

i like to call the 3bet pre with AKo. i cap AKs. by calling, i set up MY choice on the flop while being oop. if i hit, i can c/r (because he will cbet). if the board is super dry, i will wait for the turn to c/r. i just feel i like giving initiative with big, unmade hands when he may have a wide range of pairs/big draws and told me he liked his hand this much pre. not that its worth shit down here, but i also feel it balances out my whiffed flops that i look to c/f or peel with all sorts of shit. i dont like oop, so i tend to tighten up a bit and get a little more passive and "observe" what villain will do with what. oop is for read taking, imo, and being in position is for punishing them with aggression after taking your reads.

however, i think you BARELY have odds on the turn and you dont know if your A and K are clean by themselves. i lean towards c/c, too, but am also looking for a perfect river.

when you dont get it, i'm out. i understand we dont have to be right but 12% of the time.......but, are we? i dont think so.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

Lance

03-25-2009, 04:20 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 210

In former times i didnt cap preflop with AKo in out of position from reasons you said. Now i am doing that, it is huge hand to not cap it in 6max but as you see it is necessary to know how to continue.

Btw He had A3o.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe" (Albert Einstein)

asdpikas

03-25-2009, 06:10 PM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Posts: 1,056

played fine, i dont mind calling or folding on the river. I would tend to call an unknown.

THIS IS an unknown. 5 hands is nothing. I once was dealt AA 5 times out of my first 8 hands on a 6max table (sweet sensation

). Needless to say, you dont need several AA to play 4 hands in a row 6max.

"could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.

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AKo out of position

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