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acezrez
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05-17-2006, 06:40 PM
Post subject: AJs UTG
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17
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Should I have capped preflop?
Did I play the flop to aggressive?
Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J , A. CO posts a blind of $0.25.
Hero raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO (poster) calls, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.
Flop: (13.40 SB) T, K , 9 (5 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Button bets, Hero raises, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button calls.
Turn: (8.70 BB) 5 (3 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.
River: (10.70 BB) Q (3 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.
Final Pot: 12.70 BB
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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I can see an argument for a cap preflop at a 6 max table against the right opp. I like yourcall here tho.
I lead that flop and keep raising any resistance.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Why would you checkraise the flop? that way you get the least amount of money in the pot. What you should have done is donk it out and hope MP2 and CO call, then when Button bets you can 3 bet the field and build the pot. Pretty standard flush draw play.
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Jeff is exactly right. One of the reasons the preflop call is better than the cap is that by just calling, you let the Button think he has control of the hand, which increases the chances he will raise you when you bet out a good flop. The button is in the perfect position for you as after you lead the flop, everyone gets to act before he likely raises you and hopefully they all feel tied to the pot (actually, your draw is so strong that depending on the other opponents, you may just call a flop raise if a 3-bet is likely to chase MP2 and CO away). To check raise this flop is a horrendous mistake, and I don't say that to criticize, but because playing this situation correctly is critical to a good win rate. How bad is this mistake? Worse than raising 72o UTG every time you get it. Worse than calling to the river with 22 when you know you are beat hoping for a magic set. The key with strong draws is to know when your chief goal is to build a pot and keep people in, and when you prefer to thin the field and protect your hand, and also how to do each most effectively at the table you are at.
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acezrez
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17
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looks like I really misplayed it.... thanks guys
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Yeah, I might not even threebet after he raises. If I hit my hand, I could see a stop'n'go in the future
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thenonsequitur
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
Yeah, I might not even threebet after he raises. If I hit my hand, I could see a stop'n'go in the future
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This one is a tough situation. The board has so much straight/connected potential and high card potential that I think after a sequence of you lead / villian raises / you 3-bet, the middle opponents are more likely to call with hands like a straight draw or two pair or Kx than if the board was something like 39J. So in this situation I think I would probably 3-bet.
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silverfist
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05-18-2006, 03:16 PM
Post subject: Re: AJs UTG
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#8 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 341
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by acezrez
Should I have capped preflop?
Did I play the flop to aggressive?
Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J , A . CO posts a blind of $0.25.
Hero raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO (poster) calls, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.
Flop: (13.40 SB) T , K , 9 (5 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Button bets, Hero raises, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button calls.
Turn: (8.70 BB) 5 (3 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.
River: (10.70 BB) Q (3 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.
Final Pot: 12.70 BB |
I like the check-raise here. You won't always win here with just a flush. You have an overcard and a possible second pair.
The raise will fold out any queens, possibly buying you jack outs. You might fold out A9 or AT, buying you ace outs. You might fold out JT or J9, also buying you jack outs. If you fold out any jack or queen, you're eliminating redraws if you hit your ace. With an overcard like this on a flush draw, especially on a draw-heavy board like this one, I like to protect my extra outs. The pot is large enough that it's worth the investment. Sure, you lose a bet or two by not trapping if you hit your flush, but just betting out here could cost you the pot.
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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I'd much rather lead at this flop and trap extra people in the pot.
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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elipsesjeff
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05-18-2006, 05:07 PM
Post subject: Re: AJs UTG
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#10 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by silverfist
The raise will fold out any queens, possibly buying you jack outs. You might fold out A9 or AT, buying you ace outs. You might fold out JT or J9, also buying you jack outs. If you fold out any jack or queen, you're eliminating redraws if you hit your ace. With an overcard like this on a flush draw, especially on a draw-heavy board like this one, I like to protect my extra outs. The pot is large enough that it's worth the investment. Sure, you lose a bet or two by not trapping if you hit your flush, but just betting out here could cost you the pot.
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This makes no sense. You don't have the best hand but with 4 people in the pot but you are going to win this greater than 40% of the time. Build the pot. Possibly some of the worst advice I've seen in a while concerning playing a draw OOP.
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Remember, it's not just the nut flush draw, but also a nut gutshot draw ... no need at all to protect the hand
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silverfist
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05-20-2006, 09:24 PM
Post subject: Re: AJs UTG
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#12 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 341
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
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Originally Posted by silverfist
The raise will fold out any queens, possibly buying you jack outs. You might fold out A9 or AT, buying you ace outs. You might fold out JT or J9, also buying you jack outs. If you fold out any jack or queen, you're eliminating redraws if you hit your ace. With an overcard like this on a flush draw, especially on a draw-heavy board like this one, I like to protect my extra outs. The pot is large enough that it's worth the investment. Sure, you lose a bet or two by not trapping if you hit your flush, but just betting out here could cost you the pot.
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This makes no sense. You don't have the best hand but with 4 people in the pot but you are going to win this greater than 40% of the time. Build the pot. Possibly some of the worst advice I've seen in a while concerning playing a draw OOP. |
True, you have two draws, but you might win this thing with an ace or a jack as well. You have 12 outs to the nuts, but three to top pair and three to second pair.
The problem with this draw is that when you hit it, people are going to freeze. Either there's a flush or a 4-straight on the board (though you can probably milk another jack for quite a bit). So, letting someone else take the lead doesn't guarantee you any more bets.
Build the pot if you like, but if you hit an ace and someone redraws with QT, you're going to feel pretty silly. Same thing if you hit the ace and someone is holding AT.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Thats the point of building the pot when you do hit, because you wont make nearly as much with the made hand as you could have by building the pot. The probability of you hitting your flush and gutshot (14 outs) is like 2.5 times the probability of pairing your Cards(6 outs).
Either way, you should be ramming and jamming so that when you do spike your nut hand you get a big pot, and not a small one.
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