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Hermann the Lombard
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10-16-2007, 08:02 PM
Post subject: AT + AJJ
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
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PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is Button with A , T .
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.
Flop: (5 SB) A , J, J (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, CO bets, Hero...
Early in the session. The only one I know is UTG (and you know him too), but he took the first exit. Unfortunately the Jacks are in the playing zone and there are three players behind me. It's reasonably likely that I can get most of those to fold for 2 bets, but what of the CO? He didn't raise PF but certainly there are a lot of hands with Jacks in his range (and the ranges of those behind me). What I do here is critical because if I raise I tie myself to the pot...and yet I have top two pair, if two pair have any use here. It seems wussie-ish to call down from here, and folding seems worse.
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arborman
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 300
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I think I know this one, but what are your stats on the villain?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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CALL
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Hermann the Lombard
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by arborman
I think I know this one, but what are your stats on the villain?
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I don't think anything had come up on the HUD this early. My impression was that he was in a lot of pots, but that wasn't any help. By the end of the session the numbers were 38/16.7/1.7.
Fnord, would your plan be to call down from there assuming relative blanks on turn and river?
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Oh, no! Not another learning experience!
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hermann the Lombard
Fnord, would your plan be to call down from there assuming relative blanks on turn and river?
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Yes, I don't see any value in raising.
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Hermann the Lombard
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
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Oh, plenty of value...for the villain. 
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Oh, no! Not another learning experience!
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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I think i'm probably raising the flop here, if for no other reason than to keep guys with KT, QT, etc. from getting odds to chase a gutshot. If I meet any resistance I'm looking for the exit. I probably just check behind on the turn or fold the turn if it's bet into me. If it's checked around on the turn I'll call a single bet on the river.
Calling down has its merits as well, as it disguises the fact that you have a pretty decent hand and encourages a CO with A9- to keep betting.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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Hermann the Lombard
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
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Here's the rest of the hand.
PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is Button with A, T.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.
Flop: (5 SB) A, J, J (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, CO 3-bets, Hero calls.
Turn: (5.50 BB) Q (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.
River: (9.50 BB) J (2 players)
CO bets, Hero calls.
Final Pot: 11.50 BB
Having raised the flop I think I should call the 3-bet. I think I should have checked behind on the turn. Once he raises I'm certain I'm toast, and I guess since I expect him to bet the river I'm getting 9.5:2 odds. Can I expect to win this one time in five?
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Oh, no! Not another learning experience!
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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You got owned.
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Hermann the Lombard
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
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That's a polite way to put it. I can think of some less printable ways.
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Oh, no! Not another learning experience!
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
You got half.
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fyp?
yea, that's an awesome turn sexy, lucky river though 
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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The turn is a pretty easy fold against a lot of players. Fail that, check behind. If lots of money goes into the pot in this spot it doesn't often end good for you.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
You got half.
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fyp? |
Looks like at least Jx to me. Probably JQ given the retarded turn line.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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I think co has a jack
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
You got owned.
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I think so too. But at least the Villian didn't c/r you on the river.
The flop 3bet tells you everything you need to know. Fold now and save your money.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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Hermann the Lombard
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Looks like at least Jx to me. Probably JQ given the retarded turn line.
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Precisely. The beauty of it is that on the turn I have two outs against a made full house and the villain *improves* on the river.
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Oh, no! Not another learning experience!
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mewrat
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3
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You should raise PF and try to force out the bb and sb, your equity is big vs their range.
Once you have definned your hand the post flop becomes easier.
As played you're beating te aces and pps if you get raised just pay off.
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Hermann the Lombard
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mewrat
You should raise PF and try to force out the bb and sb, your equity is big vs their range.
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I would here raise first in. I would want AQ or AJs to raise a limper from LP. Yes, that's a reflection of my post-flop skills.
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Oh, no! Not another learning experience!
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