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Agression question in limit

  
 
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scgolfer
Old 09-06-2004, 04:32 AM     Post subject: Agression question in limit #1 (permalink)  
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I have pokertracker and can not get my aggression number into the aggressive state. I know it is costing me value at some point. I am raising preflop or reraising with almost every hand I play outside the blinds. I know the area I need to improve is flop, and turn action. I bet and/raise with top pairs, and most good draws. If I get reraised am I to reraise if the situation is favorable to me? Even though I could be second best, just for value? I dont fold to the river bet unless it is a missed straight or flush, and am as aggressive as they will let me be if I hit. Any other ideas or comments would be appreciated.

I am reading SSH now but havent gotten to a aggression part yet, if there is one.
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Toasty
Old 09-06-2004, 07:12 AM #2 (permalink)  
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If you limp in with suited connectors this can bring your AF down, as you are usually limping in and then checking and calling when you pick up a draw.

Most of your agg should come post-flop I don't think I've ever seen my pre-flop agg above 1. Also consider raiseing to fold hands that currently beat you or would outdraw you.

i.e. if someone raises pre-flop and you suspect they have missed with AK but you have hit top pair mediam kicker when they bet, raise to force the draws and crap to fold or pay a double bet.

Also 3 bet the flop more, lots of people try the free card play at the 2/4 3/6 limits and I don't usually believe someone who limped made a strong hand until the turn. I've had the flop get capped by flush draws (also done it myself) more than once.
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Fnord
Old 09-07-2004, 01:32 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Here's a common one to add, straight from SSH...

Loose/passive table, 4-5 to the flop regularly.

, you limp from EP, a couple callers, Button raises, everyone calls.

Flop is:

:Qh:

SB checks, BB bets, you should raise!

However, if you have:

:Js: :Ts:

You should be more inclined to call, unless you expect the other players in the hand to cold call 2 with just about anything (then you should raise because of the extra pot equity from the gutshot.)
 
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scgolfer
Old 09-07-2004, 05:01 AM #4 (permalink)  
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I m doing a lot of this already, raising in late postion with draws (nut or high flush or open ended straight), hoping to either get free card or the pot. Do any of you continue the betting if given the free card? Betting the turn as well? I will do this on occasion, if I feel it will win the pot there or if I have a good piece of the flop either TP or even 2nd pair. Sounds aggressive to me but not showing up in stats.
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Fnord
Old 09-07-2004, 05:04 AM #5 (permalink)  
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In the first example you're raising out of position in hopes of cleaning up your Ace outs or flat winning the pot via aggression.
 
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Toasty
Old 09-07-2004, 07:50 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Also on L/P tables, people don't think twice about calling 2 cold so you are still putting money in while being 2:1 to make the flush by the river.

Certain draws Im willing to cap on the flop. I've been playing 6max recently to give my Aggression a Kick up the Ass as it had dropped a lot.
Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
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Fnord
Old 09-07-2004, 11:01 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Aggression good... fire bad...

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is BB with 7, 7.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, Fnord raises, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) K, 5, K (3 players)
SB checks, Fnord bets, Button folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: 3.50 BB

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is SB with 8, 8.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, Fnord raises, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 3, K, 4 (4 players)
Fnord bets, BB folds, UTG folds, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is CO with T, K.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Fnord raises, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) A, J, 2 (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Fnord bets, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Fnord bets, BB folds.

Final Pot: 5 BB

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is MP3 with 6, A. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Fnord raises, CO (poster) calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 5, 7, 5 (3 players)
BB checks, Fnord bets, CO folds, BB calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Fnord bets, BB folds.

Final Pot: 5.25 BB

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is SB with T, Q.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, Fnord raises, BB folds, MP3 calls.

Flop: (5 SB) J, J, 6 (2 players)
Fnord bets, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 3 BB
 
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scgolfer
Old 09-07-2004, 01:32 PM #8 (permalink)  
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This is another area where I have been trying to be more aggressive, if im in a late position "if im playing im raising". and usually betting the turn. Im trying to get more aggressive, but boy over the last couple of days I've had my hat handed to me. Seeing 19% of flops, raising about 12%, aggression number about 1.25(high for me), thru 2000 hands and losing about 3bb/100. Missing every flop and getting outdrawn on any strong hand.
Holy crap I cant play against Yoda!!
 
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Fnord
Old 09-07-2004, 05:19 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgolfer
This is another area where I have been trying to be more aggressive, if im in a late position "if im playing im raising". and usually betting the turn. Im trying to get more aggressive, but boy over the last couple of days I've had my hat handed to me. Seeing 19% of flops, raising about 12%, aggression number about 1.25(high for me), thru 2000 hands and losing about 3bb/100. Missing every flop and getting outdrawn on any strong hand.
PRF looks too high, but then again you play against more players with a clue. I would say something about moving to Party, but at this point it's like trying to get my alcoholic cousin to stop drinking...

The key with these plays is picking the right victim and knowing what flops are best to play without much showdown value in the hole (although in the first two hands, I have to think my hand is best until shown otherwise.) In any case, playing more hands will increase your variance, yada, yada, yada...
 
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Krapp
Old 09-07-2004, 05:58 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Here's a common one to add, straight from SSH...

Loose/passive table, 4-5 to the flop regularly.

, you limp from EP, a couple callers, Button raises, everyone calls.

Flop is:

:Qh:

SB checks, BB bets, you should raise!
I guess I am wondering why I want to raise in this situation. Everyone folding doesnt seem likely and a few people might drop b/c of the bet/raise, giving me a 3-way with a flush draw and most likely someone behind me. Why isnt it better to call and hope everyone calls in behind me. Dont I want a 5-way situation with a nut flush draw?
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scgolfer
Old 09-07-2004, 06:11 PM #11 (permalink)  
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I think the reason is your only going to hit the flush 30% of the time, so if you get the pot now good, and if you raise you either get more money in the pot if you hit flush, and you might get the opportunity for a free card out of position. Also you are trying to get rid of any Ax that may beat your Ace. It also will give you info on the players behind you if you get reraised you can put them on mid to high pocket pair or AQ.
Holy crap I cant play against Yoda!!
 
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Krapp
Old 09-07-2004, 06:23 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Krapp
Quote:
Originally Posted by scgolfer
I think the reason is your only going to hit the flush 30% of the time, so if you get the pot now good, and if you raise you either get more money in the pot if you hit flush, and you might get the opportunity for a free card out of position. Also you are trying to get rid of any Ax that may beat your Ace. It also will give you info on the players behind you if you get reraised you can put them on mid to high pocket pair or AQ.
I buy more into that agruement in a 3-way pot, but 5-way... The raise you make has a chance of putting less money in the pot. If Opps fold you could lose your pot odds. Worse yet maybe everyone folds to the raise, button re-raises, SB folds, BB (call/fold). Now you have 2-3 way with maybe 2:1 on your money and still nothing on the turn vs. 4:1 on your money (assuming everyone calls in)

Maybe I would understand more, if there less people or if I hit top or 2nd pair or wasnt drawing to a nut flush. At least then I could have best of both worlds. best case everyone is in, I catch my flush, good pot.. Another scenario, I scare mostly everyone out, but I have a piece of the board if I have to showdown. I would like this play alot better if I was on the button. Now I know if everyone calls, they should also call my raise. I could get a free card, build the pot, look like I have a strong hand, etc.
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