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LawDude
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03-16-2010, 06:20 AM
Post subject: in against naked aggression
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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8/16 with a 1/2 kill at Hustler. I am in seat 3. Seat 4 is a reasonable player. Seat 5 is a complete lagtard donk who has been losing a lot of money and is especially pissed at me because I pointed out that he had been slowrolling his hands. The kill is on, seat 5 is the killer, and he's on the button.
I am dealt Ac5c, and it folds around to me. I raise, hoping to isolate against the killer, who I know is going to defend. Seat 4 calls, seat 5 calls, one of the blinds calls and we are 4 way to the pot with 8 small bets.
Flop is K42 rainbow. Checks to me. I figure I may be ahead and in any event want to get heads up against the donk, so I fire a c-bet. Seat 4 raises, and the donk 3-bets. I think seat 4 may have KQ, KJ, some other hand with top pair. Seat 5 has any two cards and may be spewing.
What do I do?
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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Getting at best 7:1 on a flop call, we really have to have to have a good chance that our ace outs are somewhat clean in order to continue. Would either of them have and raise/3bet A2/A4 here?
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoRnholio
Getting at best 7:1 on a flop call, we really have to have to have a good chance that our ace outs are somewhat clean in order to continue. Would either of them have and raise/3bet A2/A4 here?
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I agree that the main issue is whether our ace is good if it hits. The secondary issue is what implied odds are we getting from the donk if a 3 hits.
I think the raise by the good player in seat 4 was an iso-raise to get himself heads up against the donk if I missed. So his range may even start with middle pair, though I think a king is much more likely because he called my pre-flop raise. There's a small possibility of a set. Almost no possibility of 2-pair due to the ragged board. I guess a strong ace is possible, though not all that likely as I think he would have 3-bet me pre-flop with one. I don't think A2 or A4 is very likely, because that would be a very fishy call pre-flop in between a pre-flop raiser and a donk who will defend his kill blind at all costs.
The 3-bet from the donk means very little. He's spewing and could have just about anything.
So those are my ranges. (1) How clean are my ace outs? And (2) If my pot odds aren't quite good enough, am I getting enough in implied odds from the donk to make up for it?
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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I think our implied odds are quite good, based on our position. If a 3 comes off, seat 4 is probably going to bet again, and if not, the aggrodonk surely will. If we count our ace outs as 2 (rather than a full 3), it may still be a bit optimistic, but I think 6 outs is good enough to call the flop raise with.
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoRnholio
I think our implied odds are quite good, based on our position. If a 3 comes off, seat 4 is probably going to bet again, and if not, the aggrodonk surely will. If we count our ace outs as 2 (rather than a full 3), it may still be a bit optimistic, but I think 6 outs is good enough to call the flop raise with.
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That was basically the judgment I made. I went into the tank (which I almost never do), and after about a minute, I called.
The turn, of course, was the miracle 3.  I checked. Seat 4 led out, not showing the donk any respect. Donk called. I raised. Seat 4 folded. Donk called.
River was another king (just to make things interesting). I bet. Donk said "well if you got it you got it" and called. I tabled the wheel. Donk mucked.
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
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JWalker
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High Card
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10
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I think the main issue here is how likely are we going to have to call two more small bets to see the turn. How agg is seat 4? If we are 90% sure he won't raise I'd call for certain sure, even without my ace outs, because my implied odds here are monstrous against a laggy tilting player. However if we end up have to pay two small bets then it is probably not worth the price.
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rawbad
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High Card
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7
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if you have to bet twice to get to the river with a decent hand and the odds are good go for it
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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[ ] Freeroll troll making even the least bit of sense ^^
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Gotta admit, I auto-fold here. Facing 2 cold vs maniac and a solid player that wants action? I have 3-4 outs at best. Sure, they pay off, but I'm out on the cheap street before I hit that A on the turn and get killed by the solid player pumping the fish.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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