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Strung
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05-02-2005, 02:32 AM
Post subject: "Advanced Strategies" for lower limits
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 209
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I dunno, I've been trying things to ramp up my aggression (I'm still a tad below 2 aggression factor so I still have to work on it) such as bet/raise/fold poker but I seem to get burned more than it's worth. Trying for the check/raise, raising with middle pair/overcard, trying to isolate someone's raise with T T, etc. seems to have no effect on players at Party (.5/1). They just call anything lol.
I've been reading HFAP and it says right in there that these techniques probably won't work in the wild/calling station games. I guess my question is how do some of you BEAT these games consistently for 1BB+/100? I am "winning" but not by much, maybe 0.3 BB over 10K hands but it fluctuates a lot. If the aggression doesn't work what does?
Maybe I just need to move up limits, I am BR'd for 2/4. Just not being able to beat this game consistently makes me worry about moving up.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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HEFAP is the worst possible book to read for beating online low limits. get SSH instead.
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Strung
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 209
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I have read SSH. I bought both books and have gone through SSH a few times. Guess I was just wanting to take my game up a notch.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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semi-bluffing is out of the question because no one will fold. even bluffing is almost out of the question too. all you gotta do is value bet them to death and push your pot equity and the money will come.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
HEFAP is the worst possible book to read for beating online low limits.
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I wouldn't go that far...
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
HEFAP is the worst possible book to read for beating online low limits.
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I wouldn't go that far... |
I would. If you cant beat .5/1 you arent going to beat the 2/4. You should be at least 3 BB/100 playing Tagg poker at .5/1.
Be aggressive preflop and having an agg factor at 2 isnt bad (mine was at like 2.3 at 2/4) and you'll do fine. Dont pay off with second best hands and value bet the crap out of your hands on the river. Raise your flush and straight draws, follow pot odds, and build your pots. You'll win eventually.
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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the techniques prescribed in SSH are tailored to take advantage of the inherent looseness and passivity of typical low low limit games -- e.g., 0.50/1 thru 2/4 at party and 2/4 thru 4/8 at B&M's. but you can always run into pockets of tight aggressiveness and tricky slowplaying, such as on early weekdays and especially at party 1/2 for some reason. at such tables, continuing to apply the pure SSH method can cost you because you're no longer up against pure calling stations. you will get trapped a lot. i think some of the HEFAP stuff may work better here.
ChezJ
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
HEFAP is the worst possible book to read for beating online low limits.
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I wouldn't go that far... |
I would. If you cant beat .5/1 you arent going to beat the 2/4. You should be at least 3 BB/100 playing Tagg poker at .5/1. |
i disagree.. i was a marginal winner on the .5/1 tables.. i know im playing somewhat right, moved up to the 2/4 tables and completely crush the game.
but small stakes holdem by sklansky and malmuth helped me out the most in the 2/4 game.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by "Element187
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i disagree.. i was a marginal winner on the .5/1 tables.. i know im playing somewhat right, moved up to the 2/4 tables and completely crush the game.
but small stakes holdem by sklansky and malmuth helped me out the most in the 2/4 game.[/quote]
Sample Size? Also take into effect variance, experience, and other factors. If you cant beat .5/1, you shouldnt be playing 2/4.
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Strung
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 209
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I guess for me about 50% of the time, it just feels like jackpot poker at .5/1. I can sit there playing Axs all i want but I'm just not improving my game? I'll give you a prime example of this. I'm MP with T T. UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, I re-raise him to isolate. EVERY SINGLE player after that cold called it. It's like they see a big pot and have to "get in" just because it's a big pot. Often I just leave these tables because no matter how proper you play it's just you sitting there waiting for your Axs to hit.
Obviously this doesn't happen all the time but it does enough to make it sting. What also makes it difficult is that you can't get a read on anybody. Is my T T still good? I'm betting but they just call or sometimes they just bet with garbage. More times than not I've seen guys betting hands like J 7o (which they raises preflop with) to the river on a A x x flop. I think I might just try som higher limits for awhile and see how it goes.
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Sample Size? Also take into effect variance, experience, and other factors. If you cant beat .5/1, you shouldnt be playing 2/4.
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i didnt have poker tracker at the time.. i played .5/1$ for about 4 months before moving up to the 2/4
i play between 4 and 8 hours a day on weekdays and 12 hours on the weekend. (I have no life  )
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Strung
I guess for me about 50% of the time, it just feels like jackpot poker at .5/1. I can sit there playing Axs all i want but I'm just not improving my game? I'll give you a prime example of this. I'm MP with T T. UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, I re-raise him to isolate. EVERY SINGLE player after that cold called it. It's like they see a big pot and have to "get in" just because it's a big pot. Often I just leave these tables because no matter how proper you play it's just you sitting there waiting for your Axs to hit.
Obviously this doesn't happen all the time but it does enough to make it sting. What also makes it difficult is that you can't get a read on anybody. Is my T T still good? I'm betting but they just call or sometimes they just bet with garbage. More times than not I've seen guys betting hands like J 7o (which they raises preflop with) to the river on a A x x flop. I think I might just try som higher limits for awhile and see how it goes.
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i think thats why i found the 2/4 to be more profitable, you only have 2 to 3 really really really bad players per table, 2 or 3 sharks, and the rest are calling stations.. unlike the .5/1 full table of maniacs and calling stations
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
i think thats why i found the 2/4 to be more profitable, you only have 2 to 3 really really really bad players per table, 2 or 3 sharks, and the rest are calling stations.. unlike the .5/1 full table of maniacs and calling stations
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Not more profitable, but less swingy. I had some shock at how swingy the fishypoker.com tables are.
Also, consider that as a pretty aggro player you'll make more money when you're not up against players who will call you down as much with weak holdings that have just enough showdown value.
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
i think thats why i found the 2/4 to be more profitable, you only have 2 to 3 really really really bad players per table, 2 or 3 sharks, and the rest are calling stations.. unlike the .5/1 full table of maniacs and calling stations
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Not more profitable, but less swingy. I had some shock at how swingy the fishypoker.com tables are.
Also, consider that as a pretty aggro player you'll make more money when you're not up against players who will call you down as much with weak holdings that have just enough showdown value. |
that is probably correct... 2/4 is working out better for me then .5/1 was.
i find the right spots to be aggressive and it works most of the time.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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Room
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 197
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SSH is for beating games where your opponents play too many hands and go too far with them (ie they dont understand the finer points of the game). HFAP is more for beating players who have a solid understanding of the game.
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