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An advanced pre-flop question

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Fnord

05-23-2005, 11:04 PM Post subject: An advanced pre-flop question

#1 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Party 3/6

A 12% VP$IP 5% PFR player open limps from MP. You also suspect he's playing at least 3 tables.
You have K

on the button.
Both of the blinds are fairly tight/aware players who will often fold.
You've been pretty card-dead for the last orbit or so.

What's your play and why?

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Phyl

05-23-2005, 11:22 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2005

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I raise to isolate him.

He wants to see a flop cheap and will likely fold if he doesn't hit, by getting this heads-up you'll take down the pot unimproved often.

Since he didn't raise preflop he's very rarely going to take an aggressive line post-flop unless he hits.

Zinnsoldaten

05-23-2005, 11:57 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2005

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I'd be a bit suspicious, especially if the ppl behind him (you!) have been aggressive with marginal hands. With those numbers there certainly is a chance of being dominated, so I'd lean towards folding unless he's been folding a lot of flops.

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pokerfanatic

05-23-2005, 11:59 PM

#4 (permalink)

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I would raise and hope he doesn't 3bet, I would due this to not only hopefully have the blinds as dead money in the pot but to get him HU, if he doesn't pull a limp raise PF, then you might be able to out play him for a fold if you suspect he missed... also a raise could give you better pot equality on later streets, if it goes that far, if he shows major aggression and you have nothing I think u know the right play there...

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whileone

05-24-2005, 12:10 AM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

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Raise. he's got a mid pocket pair, or a suited ace. If you pair your king, you win.

If it's 3 bet, well, you know you're behind. if it's folded to you, call. If you get four to the flush you're in great shape. just pairing your king is kinda scary, but worth betting the flop, the call vs raise will tell you where you stand.

if it's capped, i'd probably just let it go. it's not worth 2 more small bets to the the flop. Maybe it's worth 1 more small bet. definitly shooting for that flush, and with the tight blinds, you're going to either have kicker problems or be up against a pair allready.

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Trikflow77

05-24-2005, 01:14 AM

#6 (permalink)

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If hes 12/5 and hes open limping from mp I would suspect a mid/low pocket pair, suited ace or maybe some broadway hand. 12% is pretty tight. I would rather raise a laggy player here, the reason being his range of hands is high and he will pay you off. I think I would fold here (most 12% players are decent post flop), if he was loose I would raise him. I like to isolated bad players, not good ones.

|~|ypermegachi

05-24-2005, 03:24 AM

#7 (permalink)

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i wouldn't consider 12/5 a good player. they are too tight and too passive.

if they 3-bet when it gets back to them you could even probably muck it safely, and if not on the flop if you don't flop something g00t.

on the other hand, they will call the preflop raise, and check/fold the flop.

now...what are the chances of them having you dominated vs the times you make them fold? since you have position, i'm more inclined to raise only because i think there are more times you make them fold than them making you fold.

ArcticKnight

05-25-2005, 07:10 AM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

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Jekyl says

You raise

Because.... if he is three tabling he's probably tracking, thus doesn't have time for reads. If you are cold (and you are tight anyway, Fnord (lol), he knows you are not going to raise without the goods, and should respect your raise, as will the SB and BB. I doubt he or anyone is folding for one bet though, but you will have sent a message that could result in a check/bet/fold for your pot post-flop. Plus, you always have position.

Hyde says

You call because it's hard to put tight/passive on a hand here (A6s, 66, 77 KJos, ) and you can save one SB and get 3 or maybe 4 players in multi-way with your flush possibility. Also, if he's passive post-flop (which I suspect based on PF play), you can't get a read on him HU because it will go bet/call, bet/call, etc unless you dump or pump.

Islolation would be easy answer if he was loose passive, but then the question wouldn't be as much fun. lol

It seems to me that if we are talking about a range of starting hands, yours would be very close to what a tighty passive would limp with MP. Group 4, 5 or 6 hands, it would seem.

I'll be the donk and say a call here is better for a potentially bigger pot (flush), position on EVERYONE, and a cheaper fold.

PS. Glad I don't play 10Handed

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Wheeeeeeeee........

Fnord

05-25-2005, 07:13 AM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticKnight

PS. Glad I don't play 10Handed

I play a lot of 3/6 short against the worst players imaginable. My tables just happen to fill up quite often....

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pokerfanatic

05-25-2005, 03:11 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticKnight

PS. Glad I don't play 10Handed

I play a lot of 3/6 short against the worst players imaginable. My tables just happen to fill up quite often....

This is because you have an image of a PF maniac

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