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littleogre
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01-30-2006, 12:05 PM
Post subject: adjusting for for super loose players.
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Ok these isn't a how to beat them thread. Ok lets say there is a player at your table that never folds preflop and has a 80 percent see river rate. How much value do hands like suited connectors gain?
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SnoT_III
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Titusville, Fl
Posts: 151
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well there is going to be more money in the pot on every hand, so that should be the only reason the value of suited connectors go up. if you can limp in cheap with a lot of people in the pot and hope to hit your hand.
if it's just you and him in the pot, i'd go ahead and fold suited connectors, and stick to playing tight.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Well pt tells me that hands like 67 are +ev with atleast 4 other people seeing the flop. Heck they might even be good to go with 3 others but haven't really tried . So my general rule of thumb is 4 to call with suited connectors. On the otherhand with a never folds or hardly ever folds before the river player in the pot i think it is ok to lower those standards by atleast 1 player. I also lower my raising standard. both pre and post flop.
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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Tighten up. Make a hand. Bet it hard.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by midas06
Tighten up. Make a hand. Bet it hard.
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Please explain why i would want to tighten up? Having the golden goose at my table greatly increases my implied odds . Not disagreeing with you but asking for more explanation. For example when playing post flop if there gona call me down with just q high and no real draw and an ace or k showing i see no reason to not bet my pair of 4s all the way through the hand so long as nobody else is in the pot . On the otherhand there is much less value to beting under pairs versus a player with a lower post flop calling standard. Also when factoring in my post flop calling odds to decide if my draw is worth it i always assume that this guy is gona call also. You seem to be telling me to wait for a bazooka but why when i can kill these guys with a squirt gun? I just think that prflophands like suited cobnnectors gain more value when you have 1 or 2 players that are gona see the river if it kills them . I also think beting marginall post flop hands gains more value.I mean versus ricky the rock beting bottom pair is probably a bad idea but versus mr ya never know when 10 high might be good i think it would be a crime to not atleast bet the flop with any pair at all assuming they limped preflop no if they raised preflop. i might be less inclined to value bet marginal hands.
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koolmoe
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01-30-2006, 03:15 PM
Post subject: Re: adjusting for for super loose players.
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#6 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
How much value do hands like suited connectors gain?
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Little, unless his loose play is inducing lots of other players to enter pots. You don't get a lot of value out of playing 67s heads up against a player who will showdown 32o on a AK3T8 board. Multiway, you can limp in and hope to hit a big hand.
The key to beating a really loose player who sees a lot of showdowns is to play cards that you can showdown unimproved against a random hand(Ax, Kx, pocket pairs), isolate the loose player, bet when you have a good hand, and take cheap showdowns (check behind) when you are not confident that you are ahead.
Obviously having position on said player plays a huge role in your profitability.
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Poker is freedom
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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By tighten up, I mean don't really play suited connectors.
As koolmoe said, they only increase in value if there are many people in the pot. Unless the station is getting many others along for the ride, then just muck them.
Probable range of hands: Broadways, all pp.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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I thikn another good reason to tighten up is the over the table philosophy that you're going to be seeing.
Lets say that 3 other players are right aobut in your shoes, and the rest are crazy fish... minus one guy who always seems to beat the crap out of the table.
Your first instinct is to loosen up and play more hands to try ot take this guys money. 3 other guys are all thinking the same thing. One stupid loose player has now turned the table into a big pot theory game. Where any hand can win, and often the wierd ones do.
Pay attention to the pro. He's Betting and raising suited Broadway, big pairs, and limping ace garbage suited, and suited Connectors in good position. When the pro catches, the pots are always the biggest ones, sometimes he's betting, sometimes he's check raising, sometimes he's check calling, but always with a huge hand.
What's odd, is that this is the most straightforward the pro has been playing, he's tighter than normal, and not being really cute pre-flop.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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terrorific
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 10
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One fish at the table is great. Two start to cause problems and three or more are trouble and you need to have a good hand because one of them will hit. Bluffing has been eliminated. At the 2/4 PP tables, I have never seen so many VP$IP over 80% with a PFR over 15%. When I see two of these at a table I leave because I find it impossible to isolate them. One night at the 1/2 beginners table (when I was just starting out) I looked up at PT and saw 9 fish icons and I was losing to the table! I learned that just because there are fish at the table, they will not give you their money just because you are in the pot and play better then they do. I agree with the above post and tighten up. When you hit your premium cards they will win more often and they will be there to pay you off. Give me two fish, one rock and six tight/passives at a table and I will be happy.
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Gimme 9 fish every time. Though I wouldn't mind 7 fish and 2 rocks to my left.
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ihategnomes
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,225
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How much more value do you think you have if you more than 2 at the table?
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Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Really, the more bad players, the more money for a good player. This is increased by having a better seat at the table. Bad players are not just loose/passive fish ... its anyone that plays too many or too few hands preflop. It's anyone that is too aggressive or too passive. Every additional bad player at a table is good. Money comes from mistakes. The ideal table would be me plus 9 100/100 players.
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xanadu
Money comes from mistakes. The ideal table would be me plus 9 100/100 players.
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Meh. I'd rather have some room to isolate and play aggressively. Having a table full of bad players actually makes some of their common mistakes - particularly taking marginal hands too far - correct because of the pot size. With a smaller field and a smaller pot, these mistakes are magnified.
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Poker is freedom
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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attempting to beat the school in a table of 9 100/100's create variance from hell ;] Now, a table of 100/0's -- now we're talkin. As fnord said, if all your opponents were required to post an extra blind...
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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Lol, playing a full table of 100/100's would get frustrating in a hurry.
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