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WhooFleuryScores
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10-28-2005, 03:34 AM
Post subject: Ace High Flush Paired Board
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 918
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Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
As usual a nice soft juicy Party .50/1 table .
Preflop: Hero is BB with A , T. MP1 posts a blind of $0.50.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 (poster) checks, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.
I get to see the flop cheap with a nice suited hand.No more runner up flushes this time if I hit .
Flop: (5 SB) J, 7, 4 (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks.
As usual looking for the standard check raise flop play.Interesting noone seems to have hit the flop I guess
Turn: (2.50 BB) 6 (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 folds, MP1 raises, MP3 folds, SB folds, Hero calls.
I decide to lead out;I have 9 outs to the flush and if my Ace outs are clean make that 12 outs(I figure someone may have a Jack;if not I have a whopping 15 outs).Whoops someone raised;either I'm up against a Jack or someone hit a garbage straight.No prob I still got outs right?
River: (6.50 BB) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, Hero caps, MP1 calls.
So I finally make the nut flush.All I see is red;and there are 3 hearts yes there are.I check presuming he's going to lead out.I raise,he caps.King high flush and Queen High flush you are no good;and straights are worthless here right?
Final Pot: 14.50 BB
Results in white below:
Hero has Ah Th (flush, ace high).
MP1 has 7d 7s (full house, sevens full of fours).
Outcome: MP1 wins 14.50 BB.
So............................besides the obvious risky check he made on the flop;does anyone here give him credit for the boat?Or was I simply outplayed here?Thoughts?
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Your cap on the river was incorrect. Otherwise it's fine. By the way this is the wrong forum for this. You want the LIMIT forum. I'm not sure about your "standard" check raise play. Maybe someone else with better limit knowledge can shed light on that profitability. I would think you want to lead out on the flop and get callers for pot odds.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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Either way, that is a very well disguised boat. I wouldn't feel bad about it.
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Farrell
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 12
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I don't think there was much you could do here. If he checks the flop with 4 other players in the hand with 2 suited cards out there, it's tough to put him on trips.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Heads-up you're sometimes in win 1, lose 2 situations when you 3-bet the river. Hence, you should tend to just call.
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Demiparadigm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Heads-up you're sometimes in win 1, lose 2 situations when you 3-bet the river. Hence, you should tend to just call.
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Unless you win 1 more than twice as often as you lose two.
Why would you consider a flop check raise?
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To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Heads-up you're sometimes in win 1, lose 2 situations when you 3-bet the river. Hence, you should tend to just call.
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Unless you win 1 more than twice as often as you lose two. |
That's where the whole experts finding extra bets thing comes in....
Between his skill level and the passivity of his opponents, I wouldn't recommend 3-betting the river a whole lot without a nut-like hand.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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I really dislike your play on every post flop street.
1) Why are you checkraising this flop like demi said? You want people to stay in the pot, not limit the field. Bet/3-bet this thing.
2) Then you lead the turn as well, you'll be raised by the set and you call. Given the way you played the flop checking the turn is the better option because the pot is not very big here, only 2.5 BB, and you could fold to a bet and a raise.
3) I think bet/call the river works well against most opponents, only because when he raises you on the river, he knows he can beat the flush...
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pokerlearner
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: california
Posts: 366
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A trips is not going to 3 bet on a straight and flush possible board. he is telling you you can shove your flush.. he has the boat...just bet-call the river...
u miss bets even if he didnt have the boat...what if he only raised on 2 pair and now checks behind fearing the flush...or the board pairing counterfeits his 2 pair. bet and calling the raise seems best option for river IMHO
just my 2 cents.
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Phyl
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 396
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Anyone else autoraise this preflop? 
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phyl
Anyone else autoraise this preflop? |
Anywhere other than the blinds, yes.
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poskid_1982
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 392
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phyl
Anyone else autoraise this preflop? |
Anywhere other than the blinds, yes. |
Why EJ? I don't really understand why not to stick every one else for more bets with this hand? position?
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Superb play sir...I always call 20% of my stack off with a gutshot draw. Excuse me while I race for my wallet.
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sinky
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SCOTLAND
Posts: 295
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by poskid_1982
Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phyl
Anyone else autoraise this preflop? |
Anywhere other than the blinds, yes. |
Why EJ? I don't really understand why not to stick every one else for more bets with this hand? position? |
I happened to be re-reading part of Small Stakes Hold'em late last night and it suggests that hands like ATs and KJs are "too good not to raise" in this situation.
Can someone explain why checking may be better ?
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WhooFleuryScores
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 918
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In hindsight I basically got blinded by my hand on the river;I also misread the board and failed to see it was paired.I paid for it of course and learned my lesson.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sinky
Quote:
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Originally Posted by poskid_1982
Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phyl
Anyone else autoraise this preflop? |
Anywhere other than the blinds, yes. |
Why EJ? I don't really understand why not to stick every one else for more bets with this hand? position? |
I happened to be re-reading part of Small Stakes Hold'em late last night and it suggests that hands like ATs and KJs are "too good not to raise" in this situation.
Can someone explain why checking may be better ? |
You're only getting a 5-1 equity edge, less than that because the SB might fold and UTG could be limp-reraising (super small % chance though). Combine that with you being OOP and you're paying off every hand that beats you if you hit a marginal pair at showdown and I like to see a flop for cheap.
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