|
LeFou
|
04-27-2005, 03:10 PM
Post subject: 8c6c in SB
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
|
|
UTG calls, MP1 raises, CO cold-calls. I decide to have a look. 5 people see
  
Alrigh, this is one of those LeFou things: I checkraise MP1, eliminating UTG and BB. Whaddya think? This is a checkraise to keep the pot small, oddly enough. A king will reraise that, or possibly fire one out on the turn, but if no king is out I'll see the rest of the board free or cheap.
What I'm uncertain about is the potential impact this has on my odds of getting outflushed, boated etc. when I do complete.
For the curious:
Turn checks around, river is no help so I check-fold. Got the cheap cards I wanted.
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
pokerfanatic
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
|
|
I don't even know if I would see a flop with this hand in SB if there was a raise in front of me... what's your blind structure? .5/1, 1/2, 1/3(2/3)?
|
|
“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
|
|
elipsesjeff
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
|
|
Yeah, i fold this preflop facing a raise with limited number of opponents.
Also, you do not want people out of the pot on your flush draw. You want to ram and jam and get as much money into the pot as much as possible. You are only afraid of someone in this situation with a higher flush draw or a K, and even then your draw will beat the K as long as he doesnt hit his kicker. Thus, no need to check raise, bet out and build the pot before your flush hits. As long as there 2 other people in the pot than you then you need to value bet your flush draw on teh flop and turn.
What happened to CO here? Most likely if you bet out you'll get callers and MP1 will raise you, building the pot for you. Whether you three bet the flop is determined on the other 3 player's action.
|
Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
|
|
LeFou
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
limited number of opponents.
|
5? I'm good to go from SB with 5 playing. This is 1/2 at fishypoker, if that clarifies the play.
I don't like jamming draws to something other than the nuts (or considerably nuttier than this draw). But if that's what I gotta do...
|
|
|
|
Trikflow77
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: im so asian
Posts: 1,460
|
|
I dont like the ram jam with this board, but i dont really like the c/r here, why are you trying to lose players, you have 8 6, no cards besides the clubs is going to win you this pot.
|
|
|
|
lonnie
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 923
|
|
I can't call a raise with 68s from the SB, but getting past that...
I hate this board. Your flush is small, and the board is already paired on the flop. Your way behind and drawing to something like the 43rd nut.
Quote:
|
A king will reraise that, or possibly fire one out on the turn, but if no king is out I'll see the rest of the board free or cheap.
|
I never assume I'll be able to see free/cheap cards from the SB. Checking the turn generally shows weakness and results in a bet from someone with position. Trying to run a free/cheap card play from the SB is damn near impossible.
I hate this play LeFou..
|
|
|
|
LeFou
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by trikflow77
why are you trying to lose players, you have 8 6
|
The idea/hope was to eliminate better flush draws. I know that if I've got a mediocre flush draw on this board I'd let it go rather than call a checkraise cold. You could say it's applying the gap concept to the CR.
Probably too "fancy". I don't like it much either, the more I think about it.
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by LeFou
The idea/hope was to eliminate better flush draws. I know that if I've got a mediocre flush draw on this board I'd let it go rather than call a checkraise cold. You could say it's applying the gap concept to the CR.
Probably too "fancy". I don't like it much either, the more I think about it.
|
Flush draws don't fold.
|
|
|
|
honsheung
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 153
|
|
My play is not to play preflop.
If I mistakenly click the call button. check fold in flop.
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by honsheung
If I mistakenly click the call button. check fold in flop.
|
You can't fold this flop for 1SB. What stakes are you playing? It sounds like you're missing bets and laying down too often in big pots.
I like a check/call. Between the paired board and the high chance someone has a hand here this isn't the spot to fast play a crub frush draw. Put in an extra bet when you hit your flush, but call down if they play back at you.
|
|
|
|
LeFou
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
Flush draws don't fold.
|
Oof, I just realized you caught me: using the fact that it's fishypoker to justify the PF call, but then forgetting that fact when it comes to the flop move.
Sorry honsheun but a checkfold here is not happening -- unless there's a raising war going on both sides of me, because then I can reasonably suspect a made boat.
Regarding the PF call, this hand illustrates a bit of a pickle: it's well-known that you need more strength to overcall than to call. But it's also a fact that hands like this improve with multiple callers. So you've got what Kant would call conflicting incentives...
"More strength" in this situation would mean (maybe): higher clubs, or no gap, or both... say, 87 minimum?
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
I think the pre-flop call is fine as long as you play well enough post-flop to not check/raise here 
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
