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arborman
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02-08-2008, 05:19 AM
Post subject: 77 pre vs maniac on a tilty table
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 300
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CD Poker .25-.5 FR
Preflop: Hero is in MP with 7  7 
UTG calls 0.25, UTG+1 raises to 0.50, 1 fold, Hero calls 0.50, CO-1 calls 0.50, 1 fold, Button calls 0.50, SB raises to 0.65, 1 fold, UTG calls 0.50, UTG+1 raises to 0.50, Hero??
Normally I would be hesitant to call the first raise without at least one more person in the hand, but UTG+1 (no stats) had raised every single hand of the last 20, and showed down ATC with some of them. Between him and CO-1, who was 82/3/.4 over 300 hands, it seemed worth it. SB was a nit - 8/3/.5.
UTG+1 had put half the table on tilt too, so it was a somewhat interesting situation.
My question relates to the cap coming back to me. I think calling is the right play with so many players in, strictly for set value, but I'm having some doubts for some reason.
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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101% correct to call a cap here for set value only. 6 players in the pot x 4 bets each = 24 bets once we call. 22:2 or 11:1 immediate odds on our call.
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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Hermann the Lombard
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
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You know, I'm not concerned about the cap from your psycho, but I'd be *very* concerned about the re-raise from your nit. You're getting 7.5:1 to draw to your set with obvious implied odds from your psycho and from others who must like their hands PF. Since you're in "fit or fold" mode here I guess a call is OK. [I would fold to the original raise since I can't re-raise to isolate, but maybe I'm being w-t here.]
[Edit] Having looked at K's message I see his point even if you don't end up with six in the pot, you'll end up with at least 4 or 5 and that will be enough.
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Oh, no! Not another learning experience!
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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Looking at it again... If he's truly a maniac, I like a 3bet to try to isolate him as much as we can. But there's nothing wrong with calling either.
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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arborman
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 300
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by KoRnholio
Looking at it again... If he's truly a maniac, I like a 3bet to try to isolate him as much as we can. But there's nothing wrong with calling either.
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I do and with a stronger hand like AJ+ or 99+ I would (and did) 3bet him quite happily. 77 is more for stealth/set value - the table was tilting along with the maniac, so a middle set could be very profitable if people try to out-aggro the maniac postflop and I just call along.
The nit's raise wasn't particularly scary because it was so easy to put him on a hand. A 3bet from the SB from a nit tells me he is QQ+ and (less likely) AK+. If I miss the flop I'm gone from the hand and he gets to clean up. If I hit the flop I get to profit from him too, and I love taking chips from nits.
HTL - your comment raises an interesting point that I have begun to think about more lately - how to profit from nits. Obviously they aren't the low hanging fruit at most tables, but every once in awhile I find myself in lp with a decent hand facing a raise from a nit.
I read somewhere that if you find a player that will only ever raise with AA - QQ, play almost ATC against his raise because you know what he has, and he doesn't know what you have. ATC is a going a bit far I suppose, but the point remains. Knowing your opponents' cards, even if it is just a thin range, is profitable no matter what cards you hold, because most money is made postflop.
In the hand I posted above, I knew the nit held premium pairs, or at worst AKo. If a jack, queen, king or ace fall on the flop and he bets out, I know to fold. If I hit and he has an overpair or overcards, I can make him pay off relatively easily, and if he does manage to draw out I can still get out of the hand later on - because I know what he has. If he misses but still thinks he's good I can profit even more in the later streets.
Obviously this works best heads up, but I need to think on this more.
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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Yeah, if the rest of the table has caught the maniac bug too, forget about trying to isolate him.
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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