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Demiparadigm
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12-12-2005, 08:36 AM
Post subject: 77 blind "steal"
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
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Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter
Preflop: Hero is CO with 7 , 7 .
5 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero caps, SB calls.
Flop: (9 SB) 9, Q, K (2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.
Final Pot: 4.50 BB
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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You couldn't find a raise on the flop just to see if he was c-betting?
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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I like it. You put your value in here and its so marginal I think a raise would be boarderline spewage. Without a read, I'm dumping.
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Romulus141
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oxford, PA
Posts: 118
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Seems standard to me. Sans a read, a three-bet pre-flop tells me he has a couple overcards or a high PP, and with the king and queen there plus his opening bet, I'm probably beat. Drawing to two outs in this small pot is suicide.
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Ltrain
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
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I like the fold but not the cap PF. SB is 3 betting premium hands in the 3/6 blind structure. You have position and can dictate action post-flop depending upon the board.
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"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ltrain
I like the fold but not the cap PF. SB is 3 betting premium hands in the 3/6 blind structure. You have position and can dictate action post-flop depending upon the board.
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He's pretty much capping for value here. Small edge that he has to take when your opponent could hold any two.
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Ltrain
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ltrain
I like the fold but not the cap PF. SB is 3 betting premium hands in the 3/6 blind structure. You have position and can dictate action post-flop depending upon the board.
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He's pretty much capping for value here. Small edge that he has to take when your opponent could hold any two. |
If it was the BB playing back at us I could see more of an argument for a cap because of potentially a wider range of hands, but I don't see the SB playing any two cards here that often at 3/6, unless we have a read on him. Depending on the flop, you will get value from him anyway from over-agression, he may even bet his way to showdown UI, but against a cap he will likely slow down.
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"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ltrain
Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ltrain
I like the fold but not the cap PF. SB is 3 betting premium hands in the 3/6 blind structure. You have position and can dictate action post-flop depending upon the board.
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He's pretty much capping for value here. Small edge that he has to take when your opponent could hold any two. |
If it was the BB playing back at us I could see more of an argument for a cap because of potentially a wider range of hands, but I don't see the SB playing any two cards here that often at 3/6, unless we have a read on him. Depending on the flop, you will get value from him anyway from over-agression, he may even bet his way to showdown UI, but against a cap he will likely slow down. |
SB's are more likely to three bet than the BB, because the SB doesnt want the BB to hang around in the pot if he were to play.
You realize that 77 vs AK in position is a good cap, your hand plays so much better than his and you know when he hits but he has no idea what the hell you have.
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Ltrain
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ltrain
Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ltrain
I like the fold but not the cap PF. SB is 3 betting premium hands in the 3/6 blind structure. You have position and can dictate action post-flop depending upon the board.
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He's pretty much capping for value here. Small edge that he has to take when your opponent could hold any two. |
If it was the BB playing back at us I could see more of an argument for a cap because of potentially a wider range of hands, but I don't see the SB playing any two cards here that often at 3/6, unless we have a read on him. Depending on the flop, you will get value from him anyway from over-agression, he may even bet his way to showdown UI, but against a cap he will likely slow down. |
SB's are more likely to three bet than the BB, because the SB doesnt want the BB to hang around in the pot if he were to play.
You realize that 77 vs AK in position is a good cap, your hand plays so much better than his and you know when he hits but he has no idea what the hell you have. |
Yes, but by calling the 3 bet, I have the same positional advantage and will make up the small bet on a good flop through SB's agressiveness versus his caution if I cap, and lose one small bet less on a bad flop. Meh, probably not a big difference either way given flop variance and all the different ways various opponents may play back at you.
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"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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I don't like capping because it punishes me for finding folds on boards like this.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
I don't like capping because it punishes me for finding folds on boards like this.
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See, I never used to cap this either but now I'm reconsidering my approach when I know I'm ahead and I'm in position.
The board will only hit him 1/3 times but hit you everytime it doesnt hit him, and he doesn't know what you have if you cap here as now your capping range is wider. Thus, you can cap more with AA and KK and get paid off too. If you don't cap preflop, then you are forced to raise or fold the flop on most boards, and you really didn't gain anything.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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My cap range here is:
AA-JJ/ATs+/KJs+/QJs
Against a thinking opponent, just call AA/KK sometimes and cap AKo sometimes.
There is enough there to keep Shania happy and all these hands have lots of ways to "hit" boards. Consider that you also don't want to conceade that you don't have a hand by capping too often.
The problem with a hand like 77 is that you don't really know where you stand unless you set up or force a fold. I would much rather let my opponent have the lead so I can run lines like call/call/call, call/raise, raise, etc. Also, when the flop is just horrible, it's cheaper to get away. Pushing small edges is nice, but the real value is getting in extra bets and saving bets when difference in hand values isn't so small.
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Demiparadigm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
My cap range here is:
AA-JJ/ATs+/KJs+/QJs
Against a thinking opponent, just call AA/KK sometimes and cap AKo sometimes.
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Strange.
My cap range here against an unknown is 77-AA, AQs, AKo
I love the medium pairs because they are so easy to play post flop.
Why do you have so many suited broadways in your range?
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To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
Why do you have so many suited broadways in your range?
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Deception and they hit lots of flops.
Consider that if you never capped, the only hands really giving up much are AA-QQ maybe JJ.
Against most player's 3-bet ranges, I like capping AQ a lot more than 88 & 77.
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