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7 stud 8: ubermicro hand

  
 
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Chopper
Old 10-24-2007, 05:59 PM     Post subject: 7 stud 8: ubermicro hand #1 (permalink)  
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Chopper
sorry couldnt find link for a converter. if someone can help, that'd be gr8.

disregard level somewhat (this looked like a situation that can come up at any level given how quickly some of the table folded), or give two different answers if need be. but, i wondered if you would call a river bet here. pot is somewhat large, so i dont think i can fold...even though my hand completely melted down.

on flip side, if you were villain, would you take a shot at selling message that you think you can scoop?

PokerStars Game #12819399096: 7 Card Stud Hi/Lo Limit ($0.04/$0.08) - 2007/10/24 - 13:49:03 (ET)
Table 'Luna V' 8-max
Seat 1: schray05 ($1.58 in chips)
Seat 2: kayasax ($0.52 in chips)
Seat 4: Hurricane134 ($4.38 in chips)
Seat 5: focus225 ($1.47 in chips)
Seat 6: pfsbulldawg ($2.95 in chips)
Seat 7: lebird101 ($3.01 in chips)
Seat 8: popo29 ($2.98 in chips)
schray05: posts the ante $0.01
kayasax: posts the ante $0.01
Hurricane134: posts the ante $0.01
focus225: posts the ante $0.01
pfsbulldawg: posts the ante $0.01
lebird101: posts the ante $0.01
popo29: posts the ante $0.01
*** 3rd STREET ***
Dealt to schray05 [9c]
Dealt to kayasax [3s]
Dealt to Hurricane134 [4c]
Dealt to focus225 [8c]
Dealt to pfsbulldawg [Ks 8h 3h]
Dealt to lebird101 [6s]
Dealt to popo29 [Qd]
pfsbulldawg: brings in for $0.02
lebird101: calls $0.02
popo29: calls $0.02
schray05: folds
Hurricane134 said, "lol"
kayasax: calls $0.02
Hurricane134: calls $0.02
focus225: calls $0.02
*** 4th STREET ***
Dealt to kayasax [3s] [2s]
Dealt to Hurricane134 [4c] [4d]
Dealt to focus225 [8c] [7d]
Dealt to pfsbulldawg [Ks 8h 3h] [Kh]
Dealt to lebird101 [6s] [Tc]
Dealt to popo29 [Qd] [4h]
Hurricane134: checks
focus225: bets $0.04
pfsbulldawg: raises $0.04 to $0.08 thought it best to thin field by forcing them to call two cold since there were so many still to act
lebird101: folds
popo29: folds
kayasax: raises $0.04 to $0.12
Hurricane134: folds
focus225: raises $0.04 to $0.16
Betting is capped
pfsbulldawg: calls $0.08 maybe a bad call with only a high and so early?
kayasax: calls $0.04
*** 5th STREET ***
Dealt to kayasax [3s 2s] [Qc]
Dealt to focus225 [8c 7d] [Kd]
Dealt to pfsbulldawg [Ks 8h 3h Kh] [As]
pfsbulldawg: checks with the other K showing itself, i thought it best to give no action and call nothing, either?
kayasax: checks
focus225: checks
*** 6th STREET ***
Dealt to kayasax [3s 2s Qc] [4s]
Dealt to focus225 [8c 7d Kd] [3c]
Dealt to pfsbulldawg [Ks 8h 3h Kh As] [Qh]
pfsbulldawg: checks
kayasax: bets $0.08
focus225: folds
pfsbulldawg: calls $0.08 is this bad? i just couldnt see him checking 5th with four to a scoop. figured him for Lo only, but i still dont like my Hi
*** RIVER ***
Dealt to pfsbulldawg [Ks 8h 3h Kh As Qh] [2d]
pfsbulldawg: checks obv, i call one more now. the pot is rather big, but i certainly dont expect to win
kayasax: checks wouldnt YOU take a shot here given my weakness? or is the pot too big to semi-bluff river?
*** SHOW DOWN ***
kayasax: shows [8d 7h 3s 2s Qc 4s 6h] (HI: high card Queen; LO: 7,6,4,3,2)
pfsbulldawg: shows [Ks 8h 3h Kh As Qh 2d] (HI: a pair of Kings)
pfsbulldawg collected $0.40 from pot
kayasax collected $0.39 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.83 | Rake $0.04
Seat 1: schray05 folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 2: kayasax showed [8d 7h 3s 2s Qc 4s 6h] and won ($0.39) with HI: high card Queen; LO: 7,6,4,3,2
Seat 4: Hurricane134 folded on the 4th Street
Seat 5: focus225 folded on the 6th Street
Seat 6: pfsbulldawg showed [Ks 8h 3h Kh As Qh 2d] and won ($0.40) with HI: a pair of Kings
Seat 7: lebird101 folded on the 4th Street
Seat 8: popo29 folded on the 4th Street[/b]
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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TLR
Old 10-24-2007, 07:20 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 I think 4th is a call leaning towards a fold, you built a big pot with a pair with little chance to improve, if you just called 4th it would be much easier to fold on 5/6


 
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givememyleg
Old 10-24-2007, 08:29 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 I'd just call on 4th, and with the cards shown I might even lead 5th. 6/7 look fine to me.

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Chopper
Old 10-25-2007, 02:12 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLR
I think 4th is a call leaning towards a fold, you built a big pot with a pair with little chance to improve, if you just called 4th it would be much easier to fold on 5/6
so, you dont like forcing the table to call 2 cold there? wow. i thought that was golden that early in the hand when the K popped.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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TLR
Old 10-25-2007, 04:38 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 You are facing a quality low, an open pair and another low (8,7)
The 87 bets, so he is probably not going anywhere because of your raise, the 23 is not going anywhere and the open pair may be trips.
Your pair of K does not have much room to improve, and once one of the lows is made he is freerolling you


 
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Chopper
Old 10-25-2007, 05:37 AM #6 (permalink)  
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my thoughts were...

-all the lows can fight amongst each other, of course they arent going anywhere, but if i can take the high, i need to protect now...while its early to blow out the junk.

-i dont give the 44 much of a chance for trips as there is another 4 up, too.

-and isnt 2 pair good for high most times? if so, i have only one of my "shared cards (the 8)" up on the board, at this time. giving me plenty of time to pair another card. if that happens, which isnt a small possibility based on the up cards at the time, if i can blow out the trash, dont i stand the best chance at the high?

of course, i wasnt thinking about lows freerolling when made, but i just saw a lot of potential for half the pot.

is that thinking terrible? i've read your points, and you have more experience than me, but is that bad thinking?
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Chopper
Old 10-25-2007, 05:40 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
I'd just call on 4th, and with the cards shown I might even lead 5th. 6/7 look fine to me.
isnt your hand stronger on 4th? why lead 5th when you didnt improve, but others probably did? is it because bets double?
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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TLR
Old 10-25-2007, 06:26 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
my thoughts were...

-all the lows can fight amongst each other, of course they arent going anywhere, but if i can take the high, i need to protect now...while its early to blow out the junk.
I dont think your high hand is strong enough to play vs multiple lows in a big pot, too many times a low hand or low draw accidently hits trips or low two pair to beat you
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
-i dont give the 44 much of a chance for trips as there is another 4 up, too.
I agree its not highly likely, however when a low card limps preflop its usually 3 low or a pair, he could also have 2 pair now BTW

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
-and isnt 2 pair good for high most times?
You dont have any guarntee for 2 pair, if you had two pair now its a totally different story.
In multiway pots 2 pair K high are not always good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
if so, i have only one of my "shared cards (the 8)" up on the board
kayasax has a 3 showing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
dont i stand the best chance at the high?
Probably but fighting for 1/2 a pot without a really strong hand is usually not worth it
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givememyleg
Old 10-25-2007, 06:56 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
I'd just call on 4th, and with the cards shown I might even lead 5th. 6/7 look fine to me.
isnt your hand stronger on 4th? why lead 5th when you didnt improve, but others probably did? is it because bets double?
highly unlikely that 5th helped them, plus your ace is scary!

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Chopper
Old 10-25-2007, 02:20 PM #10 (permalink)  
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thanks boys.

i didnt mean to sound "argumentative" or "defensive." i'm glad to see you didnt take it that way.

i just wanted to get all my thoughts out so i can move forward in such situations. it helps me learn.

thx a millyin
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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dsaxton
Old 10-26-2007, 01:24 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Just throw this away on 4th street. You're facing a paired doorcard and another player that caught very good (whom the player with open 4's is betting into), and you have a weakish one way hand.
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Chopper
Old 10-26-2007, 03:16 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
Just throw this away on 4th street. You're facing a paired doorcard and another player that caught very good (whom the player with open 4's is betting into), and you have a weakish one way hand.
good points. so, if you can beat the "paired door card," you still feel weak? or was it the donk bet that makes you feel worse? or the one-way hand? or all of it?

i can see the sum of all concerns bites the big one, and i failed to see that, obv. but does one take precedence over the others?
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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TLR
Old 10-26-2007, 04:50 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
Just throw this away on 4th street. You're facing a paired doorcard and another player that caught very good (whom the player with open 4's is betting into), and you have a weakish one way hand.
good points. so, if you can beat the "paired door card," you still feel weak? or was it the donk bet that makes you feel worse? or the one-way hand? or all of it?

i can see the sum of all concerns bites the big one, and i failed to see that, obv. but does one take precedence over the others?
All and all it seems like you are going to have to put a lot of money into a pot for half the pot at best, and even that is very shaky, so it is just not worth it


 
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Chopper
Old 10-26-2007, 01:29 PM #14 (permalink)  
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yeah, i understand that concept, in my head, but it doesnt always transfer to the touchpad...yet.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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dsaxton
Old 10-26-2007, 10:57 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
Just throw this away on 4th street. You're facing a paired doorcard and another player that caught very good (whom the player with open 4's is betting into), and you have a weakish one way hand.
good points. so, if you can beat the "paired door card," you still feel weak? or was it the donk bet that makes you feel worse? or the one-way hand? or all of it?

i can see the sum of all concerns bites the big one, and i failed to see that, obv. but does one take precedence over the others?
It's mainly the fact that your hand has no low potential. Even if you were heads-up against the player showing 3-2 suited, you would be in a low equity situation, since there are lots of hole card combinations that would make this player the favorite (this seems to be the major mistake that new stud 8 players make, they heavily undervalue low and 2-way draws with 3 cards to come, and also consequently overvalue high-only hands in the same situation). Factor in the possibility of already behind behind the player with open 4's for high (maybe even drawing close to dead) and anything other than folding becomes a losing play.
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Chopper
Old 10-27-2007, 12:27 AM #16 (permalink)  
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thank you for the explanation.

new, i am. NLHE, i am experienced in. kind of a double-edged sword.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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