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6max Over-playing overcards?

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Aledan

01-03-2006, 07:15 PM Post subject: 6max Over-playing overcards?

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 8

6max 1/2
I feel over-playing my unimproved hands could be my biggest leak. The following 3 hands are a typical example, your oppinions would be appreciatted. Thanks.

Hand 1.
Game #1082837044: Hold'em FL (£1/£2) - 2005/12/15 - 17:26:09 (ET)
Boshmosh: posts small blind £0.50
Brooky004: posts big blind £1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Ale.dan [As Kd]
Ste280420: folds
Freelmm: folds
Ale.dan: raises £2
boatboy2: calls £2
Boshmosh: folds
Brooky004: folds
----- FLOP ----- [3d Qc 7s]
Ale.dan: bets £1
boatboy2: calls £1
----- TURN ----- [3d Qc 7s][3s]
Ale.dan: bets £2
boatboy2: calls £2
----- RIVER ----- [3d Qc 7s 3s][5h]
Ale.dan: bets £2
boatboy2: calls £2

Hand 2.
Game #1062117374: Hold'em FL (£1/£2) - 2005/12/13 - 15:43:48 (ET)
egtved: posts small blind £0.50
d97jopr: posts big blind £1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Ale.dan [Kh Ad]
Tickie: folds
Gary07018: folds
Ale.dan: raises £2
Sue_Denim: calls £2
egtved: folds
d97jopr: folds
----- FLOP ----- [5s 8c 8s]
Ale.dan: bets £1
Sue_Denim: calls £1
----- TURN ----- [5s 8c 8s][Th]
Ale.dan: bets £2
Sue_Denim: calls £2
----- RIVER ----- [5s 8c 8s Th][4d]
Ale.dan: bets £2
Sue_Denim: calls £2

Hand 3.
Game #1082303614: Hold'em FL (£1/£2) - 2005/12/15 - 16:52:03 (ET)
Dean0105: posts small blind £0.50
Ale.dan: posts big blind £1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Ale.dan [Ah Qd]
h1958: folds
Primitive: folds
Boshmosh: folds
Sidious1: raises £2
Dean0105: folds
Ale.dan: raises £2
Sidious1: calls £1
----- FLOP ----- [7h Jd 7s]
Ale.dan: bets £1
Sidious1: calls £1
----- TURN ----- [7h Jd 7s][6c]
Ale.dan: bets £2
Sidious1: calls £2
----- RIVER ----- [7h Jd 7s 6c][8h]
Ale.dan: bets £2
Sidious1: calls £2

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ihategnomes

01-03-2006, 07:42 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Louisiana

Posts: 1,225

The biggest problem I see with these hands entail being out of position. I believe somebody said it best," Having an unpaired ace on the river out of position = suck". Not word for word but you get my drift. Reads help when trying to identify what to do. It really changes based on position and who is calling you down. A lot of people at 6max like to call down with small pairs in raised pots trying to tame the over-cards.

Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude

|~|ypermegachi

01-04-2006, 08:09 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: emo-kid

Posts: 3,580

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihategnomes

I believe somebody said it best," Having an unpaired ace on the river out of position = suck".

that's one of Fnord's theorems in his most -EV post he'll ever make.

euphoricism

01-04-2006, 08:51 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Yeah these are very difficult due to position. With position, you keep hammering. Out of position its more difficult. I often just check/fold these rivers. Betting when youre 99% sure you're getting called and you only have A high can be pretty leaky.

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Aledan

01-04-2006, 10:16 PM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 8

So still betting the flop and turn is ok, or just bet the flop and check-fold the turn?

ihategnomes

01-04-2006, 10:22 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Louisiana

Posts: 1,225

Its not a black and white answer. It really depends on who is calling you. Check out there WtSd and W@SD. If it looks sane, then maybe dont bet the turn. If their WtSD is high coupled with a low W@SD you can fire all 3 barrells, or just bet the turn and check-call the river hoping for a bluff attempt. Also another factor is the flop texture. If there are draws out etc...

Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude

KoRnholio

01-04-2006, 10:39 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 2,165

KoRnholio will become famous soon enough

I am sure I have the same kind of leak as you, overplaying overcards. In nearly 30k hands of full ring I am still slightly in the red with AQo.. And in 6-max I have been firing each street unimproved too much as well. I'm going to start slowing down out of position and keep better notes of who calls down with crappy pairs against a preflop raisor.

That being said, the river play depends a lot on the board texture.

For example, hand 1 the flop came Q73 rainbow and the guy is calling you down. Unless he is calling you down with a weaker ace high, then he surely has a small pocket pair or any piece of the board. There's just no logical draws here (very small chance of 45/56 for a gutshot). I'd probably check-call or check-fold the river.

Hand two with the paired board/2 flush he's less likely to have a piece of this board, 8x would raise you at some point or he could be chasing a flush. Bet or check-call the river.

Hand 3, paired board but no flush draw, opponent tried a steal preflop. Depends a lot on your read of him. Usually people just steal with big cards, but some will with any pair. I suspect you aren't good by the river here, but probably worth a check-call.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

euphoricism

01-05-2006, 09:50 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihategnomes

. If their WtSD is high coupled with a low W@SD you can fire all 3 barrells

I think this is a highly overlooked part of our games. Everyone so concentrated on VPIP/PFR. I use WTSD and W$@SD probably more often, as all the money is made post flop.

The high VPIP can be, "limps the flop, folds the turn." but it can also be, "limps the flop. calls the turn. calls the river. Flips over Q high." The W2SD is the telling factor - and I have yet to see any decent discussion about it.

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pokerfanatic

01-06-2006, 12:10 AM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

1/2 6 max is just one of those funky ass games man... sometimes you just got to hold on for the wild ass ride... of course it helps to flop top pair but going to the flop i'm not felling real great if i don't hit...

Texas Hold'em $1-$2 (real money), hand #1,671,548,085
Table Bangui, 4 Jan 2006 9:35 PM ET

Seat 1: pkrfanatic [ KS,AC ]
Seat 3: the jokester
Seat 4: pepe000
Seat 6: BarnBum
Seat 9: cpsan
ANTES/BLINDS
pepe000 posts blind ($0.50), BarnBum posts blind ($1).

PRE-FLOP
cpsan calls $1, pkrfanatic bets $2, the jokester calls $2, pepe000 calls $1.50, BarnBum calls $1, cpsan bets $2, pkrfanatic bets $2, the jokester calls $2, pepe000 calls $2, BarnBum calls $2, cpsan folds.

FLOP [board cards 6D,KD,7S ]
pepe000 bets $1, BarnBum calls $1, pkrfanatic bets $2, the jokester folds, pepe000 calls $1, BarnBum calls $1.

TURN [board cards 6D,KD,7S,6C ]
pepe000 checks, BarnBum checks, pkrfanatic bets $2, pepe000 calls $2, BarnBum folds.

RIVER [board cards 6D,KD,7S,6C,10S ]
pepe000 checks, pkrfanatic bets $2, pepe000 calls $2.

SHOWDOWN
pkrfanatic shows [ KS,AC ]
pepe000 mucks cards
pkrfanatic wins $32.

SUMMARY
Dealer: the jokester
Pot: $33 | Rake: $1
pkrfanati03 bets $10, collects $32, net $22
the jokester loses $4
pepe000 loses $10
BarnBum loses $6
cpsan loses $3

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"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~

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