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Lance
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01-11-2009, 08:02 PM
Post subject: 5th hand
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 210
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PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) -
Villain 23/14/2.3 (422 hands)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 10 , A
2 folds, CO raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls
Flop: (8.5 SB) 8, J, 10 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls
Turn: (8.25 BB) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls
River: (10.25 BB) J (2 players)
Hero ?
c/f ?
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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The only hands we beat are AxKd or AxQd. How aggro is he on his draws?
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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Lance
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 210
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by KoRnholio
The only hands we beat are AxKd or AxQd. How aggro is he on his draws?
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How many players are able to bet AxKd or AxQd on the river ?
Only maniacs or thats the standard move ?
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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I am more of a full ring player, not so much 6 max. In FR I would definitely c-f, but I don't know if people will keep betting with a hand like AQ/AK here in 6max.
In 6 max the guy's capping range is also much lower than in full ring, so there is a chance he could show up with a hand like KQ or 66 here as well and be bluffing the river.
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Is he spastic in general or only when he has something...stats help but reads help more.
Usually I'm paying this off given his high AF. The pot's just too big and he could have one of the hands Korn mentioned or even KQ or Tx.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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Lance
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 210
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c/c and he showed me AxQd
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socal1111
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 191
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Pot's too big. C/C.
Folding on river for one bet, in this size pot, in lhe is disasterous.
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"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing!" -Doyle
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BennyLaRue
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 646
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by socal1111
Pot's too big. C/C.
Folding on river for one bet, in this size pot, in lhe is disasterous.
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I agree on this hand but where's the line there for you? Against a sane player, what kind of odds do you need to see when calling with a marginal holding?
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socal1111
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 191
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
Quote:
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Originally Posted by socal1111
Pot's too big. C/C.
Folding on river for one bet, in this size pot, in lhe is disasterous.
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I agree on this hand but where's the line there for you? Against a sane player, what kind of odds do you need to see when calling with a marginal holding? |
Depends on how we define, "marginal." You couldn't get me to fold a hand like this, after I put this many chips in, with a nuclear weapon.
I actually just reread the original... river paired, which makes me want to call even more.
I don't play w/ exact, specific odds in my head, making me call or fold. I make those type of decision based on whether the pot is "big" or "small."
Allowing players to push you around HU when you have a decent chance of winning a big pot is major leak. Paying off in these situations IS NOT A SUCKER PLAY... as many people think.
Remember: One bet vs. entire pot!!
You can pay off many times... yet, win only one of those pots... and you've made up for those pay-offs, plus much more.
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"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing!" -Doyle
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BennyLaRue
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 646
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by socal1111
I don't play w/ exact, specific odds in my head, making me call or fold. I make those type of decision based on whether the pot is "big" or "small."
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I guess this is my question to you as I respect your game. When does a pot cease to be small? It's not going to be a specific BB, of course, and it's all read dependent, but ballpark?
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socal1111
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 191
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
Quote:
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Originally Posted by socal1111
I don't play w/ exact, specific odds in my head, making me call or fold. I make those type of decision based on whether the pot is "big" or "small."
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I guess this is my question to you as I respect your game. When does a pot cease to be small? It's not going to be a specific BB, of course, and it's all read dependent, but ballpark? |
For me:
9 handed game... 5-6 limpers, 3+ players raised pre (action flop, obviously).
6max... 2-3 players raised pre, w/ raised flop, or bet and call to me.
If it's raised, called, HU flop, bet, call (flop)... I can let go of marginal on turn. It really depends on what "marginal" means against (x) opponent at that moment.
If it's raised pre, HU flop, with 2+ bets going in on flop, I'm more apt to hang around w/ decent chance of scooping.
Small pot vs. big pot has actually been an important part of potential improvement in my game - fighting and/or calling w/ marginals is big time loser in small pots... but paying off in bigger pots is definitely not.
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"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing!" -Doyle
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Trons
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 86
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
Quote:
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Originally Posted by socal1111
I don't play w/ exact, specific odds in my head, making me call or fold. I make those type of decision based on whether the pot is "big" or "small."
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I guess this is my question to you as I respect your game. When does a pot cease to be small? It's not going to be a specific BB, of course, and it's all read dependent, but ballpark? |
My take on these situations is a little different. If I'm comfortable with my read on the guy, I'll give him a % chance to bluff and if the pot is laying odds, I'll call (I can't think of anybody I've ever given better then a 20% chance to bluff and even that's pretty spastic). Given that, about 8:1 pot odds I start thinking about making a crying call with a marginal hand.
Against any player, I'll always call if it's HU and I'm getting 10:1 pot odds...
If there are other callers in the hand, then I tend to fold more often. Usually I'm not playing marginal hands multi-way unless I have a strong draw on the flop. This situation changes based on reads also. ie: I'll be more inclined to stay with a bluffer betting and a station calling.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
Trons is right!
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Jsttrons
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socal1111
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 191
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trons
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
Quote:
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Originally Posted by socal1111
I don't play w/ exact, specific odds in my head, making me call or fold. I make those type of decision based on whether the pot is "big" or "small."
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I guess this is my question to you as I respect your game. When does a pot cease to be small? It's not going to be a specific BB, of course, and it's all read dependent, but ballpark? |
My take on these situations is a little different. If I'm comfortable with my read on the guy, I'll give him a % chance to bluff and if the pot is laying odds, I'll call (I can't think of anybody I've ever given better then a 20% chance to bluff and even that's pretty spastic). Given that, about 8:1 pot odds I start thinking about making a crying call with a marginal hand.
Against any player, I'll always call if it's HU and I'm getting 10:1 pot odds...
If there are other callers in the hand, then I tend to fold more often. Usually I'm not playing marginal hands multi-way unless I have a strong draw on the flop. This situation changes based on reads also. ie: I'll be more inclined to stay with a bluffer betting and a station calling. |
That's definitely good too!!
For me, I began playing live, and still play more live than online... so my mind (while playing the hand) focuses more on big/small, and specific reads vs. (X) %'s
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"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing!" -Doyle
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Trons
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 86
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Yeah, I do decently the few times I've played LHE live, but after playing online, I'm not nearly as comfortable because I can't see pot size and calculate pot odds instantly so it's more of general feeling as to whether pot size is small or big. Been there done that.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
Trons is right!
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Jsttrons
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