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arborman

08-24-2007, 09:08 PM Post subject: 4 folds

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 300

Here are 4 hands that I folded on the turn or river the other day. I think it was the right decision each time, but I have doubts over a couple of the calls and at least one of the folds. Advice would be welcome.

I had notes on some of the villains, but nothing particularly informative given the context of my hands and the board. None were very good players, and all would call to the river with any pair, or a draw.

FIRST HAND

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with

.
Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB)

(10 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.70 BB)

(9 players)
Hero checks
MP3 bets
CO folds
Hero folds

I suspect my preflop raise may have been a mistake, though I'm still thinking on that. This hand I was fairly sure he had an ace, which left me a measly 4 outs. I'm not sure about the flop call. My thinking was that he would likely hang onto a top pair through some reraises if I hit the ten, so I may have tricked myself into some implied odds that weren't there. That said it was a pretty narrow margin between calling or folding the turn, so input would be welcome. Maybe a flop bet?

SECOND HAND:

Preflop: Hero is Button with

.
MP1 calls, Hero raises, MP1 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB)

(10 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2.75 BB)

(10 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

River: (2.75 BB)

(10 players)
MP1 bets
Hero folds

Here I think he was either bluffing with overpairs, or possibly holding onto a pp. If he had checked I'd likely have bet out, but I don't much like to call with nothing more than a high card in such a small pot. Maybe a turn bet?

HAND 3

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with

.
MP1 calls, Hero raises, CO calls, SB calls, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10 SB)

(9 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: (5 BB)

(9 players)
SB bets, BB folds, MP1 folds, Hero calls, CO calls.

River: (8 BB)

(7 players)
SB bets
Hero folds

Folding a missed draw is fairly straightforward, though I think calling the turn with the nut and near nut draw seemed like a good call. That said, I thought about raising the turn, but decided against it with so many people in the hand - somebody surely had a pair, and I would probably have had to fold or cold call to a reraise. Too risky, I think - though I'm open to other opinions.

HAND 4

Preflop: Hero is Button with

.
MP1 (poster) checks, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls.

Flop: (13.40 SB)

(8 players)
BB bets, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (11.20 BB)

(7 players)
BB bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, MP1 caps, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (23.20 BB)

(7 players)
BB bets
MP1 raises
Hero folds

The action on the turn had me thinking that someone - probably BB or MP1, had flopped trips. Given that the river was likely to be capped as well, I folded against two bets. Also a concern was the flush draw (MP1 was my guess with his sudden liveliness on the turn).

So, were they good folds, or should I have called one or more of them. And were the calls good?

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Fnord

08-24-2007, 09:14 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Hand 1: I sometimes play it like this
Hand 2: Bet the flop, Bet the turn, check the river behind.
Hand 3: Bet the flop
Hand 4: I don't get why we're putting in lots of bets with this hand. Calling 2 cold on the turn is setting money on fire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

arborman

08-24-2007, 10:05 PM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 300

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Hand 1: I sometimes play it like this

Ok.

Quote:

Hand 2: Bet the flop, Bet the turn, check the river behind.

Makes sense. I think I was a bit passive on this hand for sure. All these hands happened inside of two minutes, along with a cracked KK and a QQ that hit a flop of AK3 and two bets before it came around to me, so I think I had been beaten into submission at some point.

Quote:

Hand 3: Bet the flop

2 overcards and 2 runner long shot draws with that many people in the pot? Can you clarify your reasoning a bit, cause my first reaction is that at least one of them has hit a pair, and probably a couple others are holding a few of my outs already. Even if they don't, I doubt they'd all fold to a small be SB on the flop with that pot. But I'm probably wrong, so your input is most welcome.

Quote:

Hand 4: I don't get why we're putting in lots of bets with this hand. Calling 2 cold on the turn is setting money on fire.

I think you're right there.

TylerK

08-24-2007, 10:22 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME

Posts: 1,791

*grunch*

1. I play it the same
2. I definitely bet flop and probably turn, usually check behind river. I tend to spew though.
3. Again I may bet the flop, but I think this hand is ok as played.
4. I slow way down on the turn. I am trying to get to showdown cheaply after the flop action. If you just call the turn, the rest of the hand plays out way differently, and you feel much better about folding the river for two.

TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol

DrivingDog

08-24-2007, 10:26 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Location: UK

Posts: 923

Hand 1: Calling the flop getting 12:1 on a gutshot draw is perfectly sensible. Your implied odds are huge given there was a bettor and a caller. Folding the turn when you miss is absolutely correct.

Hand 2: You have to autodonk two overs HU on the flop and turn, especially if one's an Ace. You probably have the best hand and your opponent will fold often enough to make it profitable vs. giving away free cards.

Hand 3: Yeah sorry Fnord but i don't get you on this one either. I don't autodonk two overs into 5 opponents. You're not going to get everyone to fold, you're probably behind, and you have at best 6 outs and a backdoor draw. Your Ace or J outs are tainted by the possibility of reverse-domination or someone already having two pair or a set. You might get a free card on the turn i guess, but i think that possibility is outweighed by the weakness of your hand. So I think you played this hand correctly.

Hand 4: you have to stop and think anytime someone three bets a paired board and another person calls. While it's possible both of your opponents are going nuts with just an Ace or big pp, it's much more likely someone has a 7. So i'm definitely puke-folding the turn here if not the flop.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).

Fnord

08-24-2007, 11:14 PM

#6 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Hand 3 I bet to thin down the field and see if I want to fire a second barrel. In addition to balance and I'm probably calling a single bet anyway so I may as well be the guy putting one in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

daven

08-24-2007, 11:42 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up

Posts: 5,805

Hand 1. I'm not sure about the pre-flop raise. As played I call the flop raise (four outs is about 10% right, the pot is already big enough, and chances are it would get bigger if your straight hit)

Hand 2: I bet the flop. As played i would fold the river.

Hand 3: You don't c-bet much. Loads of players in the pot, so maybe this would be a bad place to do it, but you do have good position. Turn, easy call with the nut-flush draw. River, easy fold.

Hand 4: Strange. I would probably be abandoning ship earlier, maybe when MP1 called the opening turn bet (and maybe on the flop, but unlikely). You gotta be thinking trips as a minimum on this board, your top pair, top kicker is redundant now.

TylerK

08-24-2007, 11:45 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME

Posts: 1,791

Quote:

Originally Posted by daven

Hand 1. I'm not sure about the pre-flop raise.

what the hell

TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol

daven

08-25-2007, 12:03 AM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up

Posts: 5,805

sorry. I probably 50-50 raise fold here pre-flop. Maybe I'm wasting my good cards, but I was playing way too loose before. Suited i would always raise.

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