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Fnord

02-29-2008, 10:29 AM Post subject: 3 draw hands

#1 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

otto is semi-Taggy and aggressive
cacietto63 plays too many hands pre-draw and seems passive
stiff queen is too tight, predictable and will make cute laydowns

PokerStars Game #15629068429: 5 Card Draw Limit ($3/$6) - 2008/02/29 - 05:06:05 (ET)
Table 'Marmulla' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: otto ($49.50 in chips)
Seat 3: cacietto63 ($146.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Fnord ($183 in chips)
Seat 5: stiff queen ($79 in chips)
Seat 6: zxz_ ($60.50 in chips)
cacietto63: posts small blind $1
Fnord: posts big blind $3
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to Fnord [9d Th Ks Kh 2s]
stiff queen: folds
zxz_: folds
otto: raises $3 to $6
cacietto63: calls $5
Fnord: calls $3
cacietto63: discards 3 cards
Fnord: discards 3 cards [9d Th 2s]
Dealt to Fnord [Ks Kh] [Tc Td Jc]
otto: discards 1 card
cacietto63: checks
Fnord: checks...

PokerStars Game #15629062170: 5 Card Draw Limit ($3/$6) - 2008/02/29 - 05:05:20 (ET)
Table 'Marmulla' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: otto ($53.50 in chips)
Seat 3: cacietto63 ($145.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Fnord ($161 in chips)
Seat 5: stiff queen ($100 in chips)
Seat 6: zxz_ ($60.50 in chips)
stiff queen: posts small blind $1
zxz_: posts big blind $3
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to Fnord [Ks Th 5c Jh Kh]
otto: folds
cacietto63: folds
Fnord: raises $3 to $6
stiff queen: raises $3 to $9
zxz_: folds
Fnord: calls $3
stiff queen: discards 1 card
Fnord: discards 3 cards [Th 5c Jh]
Dealt to Fnord [Ks Kh] [2c Js Kc]
stiff queen: bets $6
Fnord: raises $6 to $12

PokerStars Game #15629111991: 5 Card Draw Limit ($3/$6) - 2008/02/29 - 05:11:20 (ET)
Table 'Marmulla' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: otto ($45.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Fnord ($203 in chips)
Seat 5: stiff queen ($58 in chips)
Seat 6: zxz_ ($95.50 in chips)
zxz_: posts small blind $1
otto: posts big blind $3
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to Fnord [8d Ts Tc Qh Qs]
Fnord: raises $3 to $6
stiff queen: raises $3 to $9
cacietto63 has returned
zxz_: folds
otto: folds
Fnord: calls $3
Fnord: discards 1 card [8d]
Dealt to Fnord [Ts Tc Qh Qs] [2d]
stiff queen: discards 3 cards
Fnord: checks
stiff queen: bets $6
Fnord: folds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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TLR

03-02-2008, 07:37 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Hand1: Do you think otto will bet unimproved 2 pair ? if not you are probably better off betting

Hand2: Again up to your read, if he will call your raise with 2 pair it is good, if he will fold it then it is a bad raise

Hand3: Tough laydown getting 1:5 on your money, you have to be pretty sure he is not pulling a move on you here

Fnord

03-04-2008, 11:43 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TLR

Hand2: Again up to your read, if he will call your raise with 2 pair it is good, if he will fold it then it is a bad raise

I also beat almost all trip hands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLR

Hand3: Tough laydown getting 1:5 on your money, you have to be pretty sure he is not pulling a move on you here

Passivish player and a line that almost can't be a bluff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

TLR

03-04-2008, 12:03 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

TLR wrote:
Hand2: Again up to your read, if he will call your raise with 2 pair it is good, if he will fold it then it is a bad raise

I also beat almost all trip hands.

He drew one, I think the chances of trips are slim

[quote="Fnord"]
TLR wrote:
Hand3: Tough laydown getting 1:5 on your money, you have to be pretty sure he is not pulling a move on you here

Passivish player and a line that almost can't be a bluff.

Quote:

From a passive player I agree its almost always trips or better 2 pair, but we know he raised you with a pair, he may figure his only way to win this pot is to bet it, hoping you will fold unimproved 2 pair

Fnord

03-04-2008, 12:11 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TLR

He drew one, I think the chances of trips are slim

Most players with a clue tend to draw 1 to trips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

TLR

03-04-2008, 01:32 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLR

He drew one, I think the chances of trips are slim

Most players with a clue tend to draw 1 to trips.

Why? deception value ?

Fnord

03-04-2008, 01:36 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TLR

Why? deception value ?

Yes. Some people will play the 2 card range though (I keep track of this in notes.) My personal feeling on it is that I'd rather get rid of 2 draws and draw 3 to my pairs and have a wide 1 draw range that gets my trips and bigger two pair paid or lets me mix in draws if I think my opponents aren't looking me up often enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

brian1175

03-19-2008, 12:12 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Posts: 143

Hand 1: Standard check call
Hand 2: Standard reraise
hand 3 : call ( would be read dependant..but I think it's a call against queen)

Fnord

03-20-2008, 10:11 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by brian1175

hand 3 : call ( would be read dependant..but I think it's a call against queen)

She used to be a pretty big nit who missed some really easy value bets. I guess that changed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Mr_Pokah

03-25-2008, 03:30 PM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2006

Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Posts: 20

Oh a 5CD discussion, lovely.

Hand 1:

You have good relative position in this hand with cacietto63 squeezed between you and the predraw raiser, so you get to see what he does if otto bets. So there will be 2 interesting scenarios:

Otto bets and cacietto63 folds:

I am capable of folding here since alot of solid players won't bet out in a multiwaypot without at least trips. However, have you seen otto raise with draws? Does he continuationBet alot? I think i would call here most of the time against someone who I haven't deemed to be a really solid player. Raising is of course out of the question.

Otto bets and cacietto63 calls:

The pot is now $30 and it will cost you $6 to call (closing the action). Is your hand good here at least on in five? I think it might be, considering that cacietto63 probably would have raised with trips. Call.

As a side note: If you aren't capable of folding high 2pairs postdraw, in the right situations and against the right type of opponents, in higher stakes games you will be giving away to much money.

"Depend on the rabbit's foot if you will, but remember it didn't work for the rabbit. "

Mr_Pokah

03-25-2008, 03:31 PM

#11 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2006

Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Posts: 20

Hand 2:

NH. The only time the reraise is bad here is if he is bluffing and 3betting a draw pre. Then it would be the classical "you will only be called (raised) if you're beat".
Raise and call a reraise.

"Depend on the rabbit's foot if you will, but remember it didn't work for the rabbit. "

Mr_Pokah

03-25-2008, 03:32 PM

#12 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2006

Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Posts: 20

Hand 3:

This is totally based on reads of your opponent. I like the fold here.

Some ramblings on drawing 1 to trips:

I agree with your post fnord about having a wide 1 card draw range. You want ppl with 2pair to call your trips (drawing 2 will tell everyone at the table that you have trips unless you also draw 2 with pairs which in my opinion sucks).
Opponent's thinking: He draws 1 card with 2pair, trips and drawbluffs. Can i fold my 2pair here?

The small increase in chance to improve your trips when drawing 2 instead of one is 2%.
Getting called postflop is far more valuable.

"Depend on the rabbit's foot if you will, but remember it didn't work for the rabbit. "

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