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3-betting KQo

  
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 10-15-2005, 06:42 AM     Post subject: 3-betting KQo #1 (permalink)  
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 BB is 32/19/2.38
The other is bicyclekick from 2+2 mid/high...

The background of this game is game is similar to a bad to average 3/6 and 5/10 table, with smart players that make mistakes that are either too aggressive or not aggressive enough.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J, 6.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, MP3 =#A500AF(bicyclekick)/ 3-bets, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 9, Q, 9 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, bicyclekick bets, BB calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (5.75 BB) J (2 players)
BB bets, bicyclekick calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 8 (2 players)
BB bets, bicyclekick calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Results in white below:
BB has 7c 9c (three of a kind, nines).
bicyclekick has Qs Kc (two pair, queens and nines).
Outcome: BB wins 9.75 BB.


I've never been a fan of it myself, and usually fold to any raise in front of me, no matter the number of cold callers. I'm sure this isnt a bad play, that is not playing against a raise, but is it the most optimal? My question is, then, what range of opponents are you 3-betting this hand against? 15-20 PFR 3 bet KQo + KQs, 10-15 PFR 3bet KQs only, 5-10 PFR fold both?

For that matter, I usually fold KQs facing a raise in a regular full ring game.


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jmontis
Old 10-15-2005, 06:49 AM #2 (permalink)  
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KQo is an easy 3-bet from a maniac, but I fold it against a lot of players
take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
 
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Fnord
Old 10-15-2005, 06:50 AM #3 (permalink)  
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I'll 3-bet weak/tight TAggs with it if they have a large enough PFR. 8ish or more comming in from at least MP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 10-15-2005, 06:58 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
I'll 3-bet weak/tight TAggs with it if they have a large enough PFR. 8ish or more comming in from at least MP.
You know as well as I do though this is every opponent at 5/10 6 max or higher. Does that mean its an auto 3-bet from you? What if a raise and a cold caller?

One of the reasons I ask is of the 6 times I've folded this hand so far at 30/60, I would have won 3 of them; that and it strikes me odd to see someone else do it.

I'm also guessing if you're 3betting KQo then AJo and AJs you are too...


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Fnord
Old 10-15-2005, 07:24 AM #5 (permalink)  
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6 max KQo is an easy 3-bet against anyone who's not a nit. You just can't expect to tread water while folding good hands. AJo is a 3-bet too.

How much time did you put in at 5/10 6 max? This is pretty basic stuff...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Nehmer
Old 10-15-2005, 01:58 PM #6 (permalink)  
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My KQ 3-bets tend to deal more with position than my opponents stats. If my opponent is UTG and I am UTG+1 or any MP position, I am folding KQs or KQo to a raise almost everytime(Even if opponent is a complete maniac, my opponents will know that too and not respect my isolation 3-bet anyway, so best to wait till fewer are behind me). Now if I am on the button facing a single raiser from MP2 or later, then I am probably going to 3-bet KQs or KQo almost everytime unless my opponent is way tight like PFR under 7-8 depending on exact position. Even the laggiest of players aren't typically raising trash UTG and even the tightest of players are typically loosening up quite a bit in the CO or HJ(and loosening up to play hands they aren't comfortable playing in a raised pot to begin with).
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 10-15-2005, 03:29 PM #7 (permalink)  
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i think part of the +EV comes from being able to take initiative and control the pot. there are many players who you could 3bet preflop with any 2 because they will fold to your flop autobet if they don't hit.

KQ/AJ are really good such hands and are good enough to use against thinking players since you're essentially breakeven in terms of yours cards better than theirs, but you have the added initiative bonus.
 
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Fnord
Old 10-15-2005, 04:51 PM #8 (permalink)  
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...and position.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 10-15-2005, 06:05 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
How much time did you put in at 5/10 6 max?
Only about 10k hands, remember I'm a full ring player at heart and still look at AJo and KQo as shit hands.

Quote:
This is pretty basic stuff...
And the last time you played anything higher than 5/10 what happened? Hmm, might not be that basic....

I'm trying to play 100% perfect poker all the time, you cant make mistakes at this level and expect to be able to recover.


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