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| lonnie |
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This is at Titan Poker, 3/6 LHE, converter does not work for this format. LaPampa is 26/6 On the flop I put him on either a club draw with a suited A, or a flopped set. I didn't consider the straight draw to be likely. I pondered for a minute before calling 2 cold on the flop, because of my read, but felt obligated. I tip my hand on the turn, but these guys seemed aware enough to know what's going on when OOP guy cold calls 2 on the flop. Any mistakes here? Starting a new hand (#405562387) HERO posts Small Blind $1.50 mandch posts Big Blind $3 Dealing cards Your cards  :Kc:AnnRay calls $3 vulkano folds Semorechips folds LaPampa calls $3 KillerBee14 folds NPR35218602 folds sleepy1774 folds scab calls $3 HERO calls $1.50 mandch checks Dealing Flop    HERO checks mandch bets $3 AnnRay folds LaPampa raises $6 scab folds HERO calls $6 mandch calls $3 Dealing Turn  HERO bets $6 mandch calls $6 LaPampa raises $12 HERO calls $6 mandch calls $6 Dealing River  HERO checks mandch checks LaPampa bets $6 HERO calls $6 mandch folds |
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| Harry |
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| I personally play these hands more aggressively. I would have bet out on the flop, and probably would have reraised the turn. | ||
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PSU Class of 2011 weeeeeeee!
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| lonnie |
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| I considered reraising the turn, but his turn raise on the club was screaming Axs to me. My betting out on the turn said "I have the flush". His turn raise said "Bring it". It wasn't a solid read, but replaying the hand in my head it made perfect sense at the time. I went with my gut and went into call down. As for betting out on the flop....I used to do that, now I like to check and call the flop from UTG on these hands. The longer I play, the less I like EP. | ||
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| arkitekton |
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In the games I play in betting the flop with a flush draw often means you end up paying an extra bet to see the turn, so it's not at all automatic for me to lead out here. OTOH, given that the board is not very threatening, leading out isn't a terrible idea by any means. Raising with Axc wouldn't be your opponents best play on the flop. Smallish pot, chance of getting 3-bet, only 2 people in so far, likelihood of the raise folding the one player who hasn't had a chance to call, and the lowered EV if you make the flush after raising the flop... So if he's a sound player I wouldn't necessarily put him on a flush draw, and wouldn't assume even if he is that it has to be Axc. QTc and JTc suited would also be reasonable starting hands for the mp1 pf to call with with one limper. OTOH he could be adding in some folding equity, and this isn't a bad place to pop the flop with 86, if he's the sort of player who might come in on the kind of hand pf. On the turn going for the overcall by just calling isn't a bad play when you add in the possibility that the raiser has Axc. I don't really know what to make of the action--this is so read dependent it's tough to come to any conclusions in isolation. I'd reraise if I thought it was about 80% or better that villain DIDN'T have Axc (odds given by raising plus potential overcall profit). On the river, since the overcall is less likely, I'm very tempted to check raise here.--but I don't see any real mistakes on your part. |
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| euphoricism |
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I dont like it. I lead the flop, if you don't want to, fine. On the turn, however, donking is stupid. C/R his ass unless you think he'll check it through. |
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| lonnie |
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The flop play is debatable, but I don't think I'm losing any value by checking and calling. On semi-tight tables you can kill your action a lot of times by betting out UTG. Having said that, I don't think betting the flop is a mistake either. The turn play is the reason I posted the hand. It was a donk bet for sure. When I made the turn bet, I knew if I was raised I was beat. I also figured if he didn't have the flush he would check through because I called 2 cold on the flop. Too much credit? Maybe. The play of the hand and my "intuition" were screaming at me, so I listened. Betting the turn does too things: he can't check behind, and I can save a bet if I'm beat by not check raising. Arkitekton also made the point that I get the overcall by not 3-betting. |
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| KoRnholio |
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| As played, I'd probably donk bet-call the river. Often he'll check behind here if we check, since there's now 3 to a flush and 4 to a straight on the board. Plus then if we are behind, he only gets us in for one more bet. | ||
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| 6high |
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| Oh god. 3bet the turn. | ||
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| silverfist |
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I like betting out on the flop here. That's different from my old strategy, but I find it builds up the pot while occasionally winning it outright. When you hit the flush, you have to reraise that turn. He may not have a flush. He may even have a set or two pair without a club, and is hoping to protect it against a 3-flush board (rare, but it happens). His raise on the flop there looks like he has a made hand and is trying to protect it. Chances are, he doesn't have a made flush and a flush draw unless he has specifically Ac9c. He may have a lower flush. Just put in the third bet, and if he caps it, crying call the river. If he has the ace, well, go get drunk or something  .
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| lonnie |
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I definitely normally play second nut hands just like that. My instinct told me something was up though. I don't believe in feelings or anything like that. I do think that instincts are aquired through knowledge and experience. I put him on a hand and went with my read. With no read, I play the hand similar to what you just outlined. This raises the question - how far do you trust your instincts when you are in a hand? I certainly didn't trust myself enough to fold the 2nd nut. This is limit HE after all. |
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| midas06 |
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Have you been playing omaha a lot lately? You lost a lot of value here. The flop play... meh yeah you can check call this. I prefer leading out to build the pot. With cold callers between you and the raisor you can 3 bet as well because of your pot equity. If you're leading the turn, you pretty much have to 3bet it. Just because someone raises you doesn't mean they have the nuts. Quote:
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| Alcibadies |
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I don't really like completing the SB with K4c. I don't think this hand has much promise. Checking the flop was incorrect unless you intended to raise IMO. I'd jam here 10 times out of 1o with 2 other players. Kick it in high gear when you hit on the turn. Bet/ raise as much as they'll call. Don't be scared of Ax clubs. There's only a 6% chance you're facing it. |
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| Harry |
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| I like completing here getting 9:1. Any less, no. | ||
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PSU Class of 2011 weeeeeeee!
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| STIdrivr |
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| I think you are losing value in the long run. I would have to have the craziest read not to put more money in with the 2nd nuts on that board. I would 3 bet the turn and if I get raised maybe check call the river. Or at least call the turn raise and bet and call a raise on river. I just noticed as I looked back at the hand that they both called the turn, that changes things a bit. | ||
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