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25PLO - AAs in SB 200bb deep

  
 
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swiggidy
Old 02-09-2011, 12:04 AM     Post subject: 25PLO - AAs in SB 200bb deep #1 (permalink)  
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 50bb table, I was iffy on 3betting pre given the deep stacks and villains will donate post

I'm thinking raise here folding out CO most of the time and gambooling with BTN

CO is 74/43, BTN is 28/10, FWIW

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 5 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG: $22.01
CO: $59.32
BTN: $12.50
SB: $8.28
Hero (BB): $45.78

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with 6 A Q A
1 fold, CO raises to $0.75, BTN calls $0.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.35) 6 4 2 (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $1.57, BTN raises to $6.95, Hero ...
(\__/)
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drmcboy
Old 02-09-2011, 03:14 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 I'd for sure bomb as played, debating leading flop. Given CO's stats is it safe to say you're never folding? I can't decide what the best way to get him to fold a hand like 8765 with spades would be - we only have 60% there (ignoring BU). If BU had folded what was the plan?
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swiggidy
Old 02-09-2011, 04:42 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 I figured CO would cbet something, most bad players will bet small like this when they brick and be done with the hand. I would guestimate BTN would typically call here with any sort of pair, FD, straight draw. So my plan was to C/R because this looks like a near nut board to me.

I don't usually expect to get too much action here, and when I do I'm never dead. I think I was wondering if that thought was wrong and/or bad. Seems like c/r stack is less icky than if I lead and get raised, although I would very rarely expect to get raised if I lead, idonno.
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swiggidy
Old 02-09-2011, 04:46 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 I guess the other thing is it's hard for me to not be results oriented in micro stakes PLO. If CO shoveled KK with the 2nd NFD I would lol and count my monies. When they fold here it seems pretty standard and I don't really question the play too much.
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Genitruc
Old 02-09-2011, 06:17 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 folding is OK but potting is a little better, i m too tired to type out why
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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bigspenda73
Old 02-12-2011, 12:22 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 Cool spot

no fucking clue what I'd do in the heat of the moment

not much of one now either, but it doesn't involve folding.
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drmcboy
Old 02-12-2011, 04:03 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 yeah fold was not a choice for me either. when you get a nap tell us why it's ok.

it's likely BU would jam any FD+pair unless he's incompetent which doesn't make sense given 28/10.

I suck at leading OOP when I didn't raise, I doubt I would do it here. c/r 35xx seems standard so I'd rather lead that than our hand. I guess we fold lots of hands that are drawing more or less dead with a c/r but I think it's still the best play.
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baudib
Old 02-12-2011, 04:46 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I can't imagine flatting or folding. If we flat, we invite CO to come along with whatever and we'll be lost on most turns.

and yeah it'll be fun on the occasions when he decides to 4-bet jam
Playing big pots at small stakes.
 
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swiggidy
Old 02-12-2011, 03:10 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmcboy View Post
I guess we fold lots of hands that are drawing more or less dead with a c/r but I think it's still the best play.
This was the idea I had floating around in my head last night. I guess this is a spot where if we had any reads on villain post-flop our play would become more standard. There are some micro 75/43 that would auto jam or fold if I overcalled here, but hadn't seen him be bat-shit agro.

---

Lets say we led, I'm pretty sure this is what would have gone down

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 5 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG: $22.01
CO: $59.32
BTN: $12.50
SB: $8.28
Hero (BB): $45.78

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with 6 A Q A
1 fold, CO raises to $0.75, BTN calls $0.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.35) 6 4 2 (3 players)
Hero bets $2.25, CO raises to $7.50, BTN raises all-in to $12.50, Hero jams and watches another table? ...
(\__/)
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Genitruc
Old 02-13-2011, 05:44 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 folding is ok because at these stakes, this deep, in my limited experience 1 or both of the villains hold the nuts already. CO here obviously has any 4 cards but his rags have lots of straights and sets + FD's. thinking on the level of "what is a good range for getting it in here" is fine for us but we should take into account the fact that many if not most villains simply aren t stacking off without the nuts here. the fact that we hold the NFD and 6x makes it much much more likely that 1 of the 2 villains holds the nuts.

that being said, if we could be guaranteed that CO was shipping in his stack we d be getting a correct price to stack off against the nuts. some % of the time, we ll also get in that great spot you ve all mentioned where CO holds air and the BTN has to go with KK78ss or something.

when sauce or nutsinho post about nl200 hands, their advice is always theoretically awesome but in practice it will cause you to burn money. ppl don t have good ranges, in this spot they re raising the nuts only an incredibly high % of the time. this is a giant key to beating low stakes PLO. make lots and lots and lots of exploitable folds and profit.

all that being said, my games might make me think backwards about hands like this since many ppl are PLO only players who don t have all of that american NL overplay syndrome going on...
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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drmcboy
Old 02-13-2011, 06:12 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 CO doesn't need to have anything and BU is 50BBs deep.

lost a post with lots of equities. 28% is the pretty much worst case vs 35** and a set, we're a favorite vs two 35**. So it seems like a small mistake at worst to get it in vs the disaster of folding to something like air and 9875 or worse over pair with spades.
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baudib
Old 02-13-2011, 08:22 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Genitruc:
What you say is true but the fact that this is a shortstacker table must be taken into account. These are people who are just looking to catch a piece of the flop and get it in; you make your money at this level off dominating draws.
Playing big pots at small stakes.
 
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Genitruc
Old 02-13-2011, 04:36 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 sounds good; thx for checking equities drmc

i stated right at the start of the thread that potting is better than folding. i tried making the weak case for folding because in a spot where ppl get deep (i think this is magnified since this feels like 4 effective buyins for someone playing 50bbs) we re in the worst case scenario more often than we should be vs competent aggro opponents.

good hand swig.
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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bigspenda73
Old 02-13-2011, 05:40 PM #14 (permalink)  
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 why are we giving the CO credit for a hand he's willing to stack off 180bb deep with just b/c he 2/3 pot cbet here
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bigspenda73
Old 02-13-2011, 05:41 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 I'd lead, I'd expect CO to raise like never, and the biggest question would be what to do when shorty jams if CO flats our lead
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swiggidy
Old 02-16-2011, 04:07 AM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73 View Post
why are we giving the CO credit for a hand he's willing to stack off 180bb deep with just b/c he 2/3 pot cbet here
I would not, which is why potting the flop seems non-ideal, but nothing else really made sense either. Maybe flatting hoping for an overcall, and leading the turn?
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bigspenda73
Old 02-17-2011, 11:07 AM #17 (permalink)  
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 Had I checked I'd call here and expect the CO to jam like never

he'll fold a high % of the time, come along a smaller % and play v. straightforward with a dry side pot

The shorty is just going to have so many hands we're well ahead of and the CO can have hands that are RIO against us that he might overcall the flop with
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paratrooper99
Old 06-08-2011, 03:06 AM #18 (permalink)  
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 Without reads, Villian is reraising here with nut straight, any set and worse fd's sometimes. Your are likely behind but not by much. I jam here to max fold equity. Also, I repop pre to isolate instead of going 3 way postflop.
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Genitruc
Old 06-08-2011, 04:14 AM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paratrooper99 View Post
Without reads, Villian is reraising here with nut straight, any set and worse fd's sometimes. Your are likely behind but not by much. I jam here to max fold equity. Also, I repop pre to isolate instead of going 3 way postflop.
we re going 3 way no matter what here
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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baudib
Old 06-09-2011, 11:38 PM #20 (permalink)  
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good bump, fun hand, I think the most important point is this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73 View Post
why are we giving the CO credit for a hand he's willing to stack off 180bb deep with just b/c he 2/3 pot cbet here
I wouldn't expect CO to raise a lead or call check-jam very often and even when he does, he'll be dominated a good percentage of the time.
Playing big pots at small stakes.
 
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Bullten74
Old 08-09-2011, 05:26 PM #21 (permalink)  
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 nvm
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acg123
Old 09-09-2011, 01:47 PM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmcboy View Post
I'd for sure bomb as played, debating leading flop. Given CO's stats is it safe to say you're never folding? I can't decide what the best way to get him to fold a hand like 8765 with spades would be - we only have 60% there (ignoring BU). If BU had folded what was the plan?
I might flat and let the co decide my future action, as he has more monies that I want to get my hands on, I think if you bomb that flop u might scare the big stack off a 2nd nut flush plus a set type hand or something close
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