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gabe
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01-02-2005, 06:53 AM
Post subject: 2 situational questions
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#1 (permalink)
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1. you limp with 77 from button, flop comes QT2. It is checked to you, do you bet? What if flop was AJ8 and it was checked to you?
2. You are SB with T2s, flop comes T65 rainbow. Do you lead off? Overcards probably won't fold and someone else with a T beats you, but checking seems wrong.
thanks
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Fnord
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01-02-2005, 07:44 AM
Post subject: Re: 2 situational questions
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#2 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gabriel
1. you limp with 77 from button, flop comes QT2. It is checked to you, do you bet? What if flop was AJ8 and it was checked to you?
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Depends on the number of players that saw the flop and table texture. Sometimes I bet, often I check.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gabriel
2. You are SB with T2s, flop comes T65 rainbow. Do you lead off? Overcards probably won't fold and someone else with a T beats you, but checking seems wrong.
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How big is the pot? How many saw the flop? Why did you complete with T2s?
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elipsesjeff
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01-02-2005, 07:53 AM
Post subject: Re: 2 situational questions
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#3 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gabriel
1. you limp with 77 from button, flop comes QT2. It is checked to you, do you bet? What if flop was AJ8 and it was checked to you?
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Its worth a value bet, theres a possibility the players may fold, and you can take your free card on the turn. If they still don't haven anything, expect to get checked again on the river, otherwise fold.
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Originally Posted by Fnord
How big is the pot? How many saw the flop? Why did you complete with T2s?
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Even in tight games I play anything suited from the small blind, as long as its unraised.
In a multiway pot, I would probably check-raise here if a person in LP bets. Otherwise, check/call and plan on check/folding on the turn if unimproved. Shorthanded, I would bet out until a scary overcard comes or get reraised back at.
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Fnord
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01-02-2005, 12:39 PM
Post subject: Re: 2 situational questions
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#4 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Even in tight games I play anything suited from the small blind, as long as its unraised.
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In a tight game it's a leak unless the blind structure is greater than 1/2. I like a little high card value or connectedness. T2s has neither. Also avoid dueces and treys.
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Re: problem 2, you have to check in first position b/c you have no idea what will occur after you act. There is a remote possibility you have the best hand but even if you do, any face card on the turn or river ruins it. So you are drawing to a 2 (3 outs) and MAYBE another T (call it 1 out). If the rainbow flop gives you a backdoor draw, that's another 1.5 outs.
If the pot is multiway, it's possible that someone in EP will bet and enough people will call to give you the pot odds you need to continue. Or, as someone else said, it may be checked to the button who opens, allowing you to raise to protect your hand.
In all other instances, this is a dumping hand, esp if the pot is small.
ChezJ
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Fnord
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChezJ
In all other instances, this is a dumping hand, esp if the pot is small.
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WEAK!
If pot is small and not many to the flop bet out. Probably fold to a raise.
If the pot and/or field is big consider a check/raise. You can not lay down top pair without a fight in a big pot.
If someone likes to steal unloved flops, consider a check/raise or run a sucker line if you get it heads up (check/call check/call bet/call.)
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elipsesjeff
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01-02-2005, 04:09 PM
Post subject: Re: 2 situational questions
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#7 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Even in tight games I play anything suited from the small blind, as long as its unraised.
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In a tight game it's a leak unless the blind structure is greater than 1/2. I like a little high card value or connectedness. T2s has neither. Also avoid dueces and treys. |
Again, I disagree. You'll make your flush 6% of the time and it only costs 1/2 of a small bet to play. that means you'll only have to make back 4 BB everytime you hit a flush to make this worth value.
6% = 16.67-1 chance preflop you'll hit flush. 16.67 * .5 SB = 8.33 SB or 4 BB. And thats with the blind structure set at 1/2.
I believe thats why Sklansky recommends it.....
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Fnord
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01-03-2005, 01:08 AM
Post subject: Re: 2 situational questions
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#8 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Again, I disagree. You'll make your flush 6% of the time and it only costs 1/2 of a small bet to play. that means you'll only have to make back 4 BB everytime you hit a flush to make this worth value.
6% = 16.67-1 chance preflop you'll hit flush. 16.67 * .5 SB = 8.33 SB or 4 BB. And thats with the blind structure set at 1/2.
I believe thats why Sklansky recommends it.....
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This was debated at length at 2+2. Here are my thoughts..
In a loose game you're right. With lots of players to a flop and paying off your draw it's clearly +EV.
In a tight game you don't have all of the silly limps and calls to pay you off so consider...
o The weaker your big card is, the more vulnerable you are to a single hole card bigger flush or even the freak flush over flush. Even if you're still good the 4rth card is going to slow you down. Also, flush over flush is very expensive.
o You're far more likely to hit 2 pair or trips than your flush.
Unless the blind structure is silly, you really want to be shooting for a stronger hand or have more ways to win.
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elipsesjeff
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I really think that unless its just you and the BB or you and Button and the BB, this call is profitable. And in tight games, it just makes it that more unlikely that you are going to be beat by a flush over flush. Someone with higher suited cards most likely will raise in that situation if in a tight game rather than limp in.
Playing timidly because you are afraid of a flush over flush is riduculous, with an exception to four to a flush on the board, which, even in that case, a K high flush is just as vulnerable.
I like to play these suited cards in the small blind because they give you a chance to see the flop for cheap while still being able to hit a monster. I think flush over flush is exceptionally rare and no one should ever play timidly because of it.
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