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2 pair vs loose/passive players on a scary board

  
 
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Fnord
Old 01-05-2005, 02:37 PM     Post subject: 2 pair vs loose/passive players on a scary board #1 (permalink)  
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Really good game

UTG, Button and SB are all very loose/passive over 50% VP$IP


Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is BB with T, 6.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, Fnord checks.

Flop: (5 SB) T, 6, 5 (5 players)
SB checks, Fnord bets, UTG calls, MP3 folds, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8 (4 players)
SB bets, Fnord calls, UTG calls, Button calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 7 (4 players)
SB bets, Fnord folds...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Fnord
Old 01-05-2005, 09:17 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I guess I need to post this one on 2+2...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 01-05-2005, 09:32 PM #3 (permalink)  
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i would raise the turn to find out where i really am.
 
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Fnord
Old 01-05-2005, 09:45 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypermegachi
i would raise the turn to find out where i really am.
Thinking out loud...

What would cause a loose/passive SB to lead into me?
How does the pot size feed into this decision (if at all)?
How do I expect the 2 players after me to respond to my raise?
What hands are they folding if I'm ahead that I would rather see them fold than call with?
If I don't raise, what hands are they calling with I'd rather see them fold?

At the time I called, after thinking about it and seeing the results I felt I should have raised the turn. Then I thought about it some more and felt I played ok. Now I'm of two minds on the hand and need some input here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Sed
Old 01-05-2005, 09:46 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Only hands that really make sense to me for the SB are 79, T8 or 88... but then again I would have raised 88 from the SB.

New guy bets after the turn says to me he made his straight or two pair. In which case he's probably got you beat. I think the fold was good with him probably holding T8.

- sed


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Fnord
Old 01-05-2005, 09:47 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sed
Only hands that really make sense to me for the SB are 79, T8 or 88... but then again I would have raised 88 from the SB.
SB could have any two. If he raises he's got a better hand than 88. Given the players/action I usually don't raise 88 from the SB here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Sed
Old 01-05-2005, 09:50 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Missed that he check-called on the flop. Maybe not top pair then, some smaller 2pair?

- sed


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|~|ypermegachi
Old 01-05-2005, 10:12 PM #8 (permalink)  
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they could have anything! lower 2 pair, A8, or just 8x. maybe bluffing when he picks up a flush draw.

the thing here is...how much are they paying attention? is this typical LP who reads his email? or the LP who likes to play a lot of hands but still somewhat pays attention?

i would have called it down, just for informative purposes. the pot is borderline medium big at this point, so either option is close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Thinking out loud...

What would cause a loose/passive SB to lead into me?
How does the pot size feed into this decision (if at all)?
How do I expect the 2 players after me to respond to my raise?
What hands are they folding if I'm ahead that I would rather see them fold than call with?
If I don't raise, what hands are they calling with I'd rather see them fold?
they hit something they like enough.
probably not at all.
you want them to fold, considering there was now 2 flush draws and a straight draw. don't let them "school" you :P

SSHE mentions that if you call when you should raise, can cost you the pot. if you raise when you should call, will cost you 1 bet. this is probably a pretty good example of that.
 
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