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2-7 TD FL: SNOW hand vs BU steal

  
 
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pocketfours
Old 01-06-2011, 01:04 PM     Post subject: 2-7 TD FL: SNOW hand vs BU steal #1 (permalink)  
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 Villain is loose and seems competent. This is obviously a very nonstandard play, anyone here who can discuss it?


Pre Draw: (1.5 SB) Hero is BB with K 9 8 7 2
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, BTN raises, SB folds, Hero calls

First Draw: (4.5 SB) (2 players)
Hero draws 3, BTN draws 1
Hand: K T T 7 2
Hero checks, BTN bets, Hero calls

Second Draw: (3.25 BB) (2 players)
Hero draws 1, BTN draws 1
Hand: A K T 7 2
Hero checks, BTN checks

Third Draw: (3.25 BB) (2 players)
Hero stands pat, BTN draws 1
Hand: A K T 7 2
Hero bets

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drmcboy
Old 01-06-2011, 06:42 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 I would just fold pre and or give up on first but I play super nitty 2-7 since I don't really get it yet. 2&3 seem good to me. Negranu in his 2-7 chapter does say he'll play some 3 card draws OTB or defending so pre is probably cool.
C00T
Old 01-06-2011, 06:57 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 #1 They are both idiots.
#2 Hero should have took only one, not 3 cards. 9 is is not a bad 2-7 hand.
#3 BTN should have folded but since he didn't he should have took 3.
#4 On third draw BTN can't possible have the same hand if he drew one.
#5 The only way BTN wins is if Hero folds or paired up on his second draw. (obv he didn't since he stood pat and bet out)
pocketfours
Old 01-07-2011, 02:48 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmcboy View Post
I would just fold pre and or give up on first but I play super nitty 2-7 since I don't really get it yet. 2&3 seem good to me. Negranu in his 2-7 chapter does say he'll play some 3 card draws OTB or defending so pre is probably cool.
I think defending with a 3 card draw can be a good metagame play even if it's a little -EV probably.
pocketfours
Old 01-07-2011, 03:04 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C00T View Post
#1 They are both idiots.
You might want to rephrase that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by C00T View Post
#2 Hero should have took only one, not 3 cards. 9 is is not a bad 2-7 hand.
I would be more inclined to draw to a 987 with position.


Quote:
Originally Posted by C00T View Post
##3 BTN should have folded but since he didn't he should have took 3.
I think you mean Hero. Drawing one was just for show. Calling and drawing three again can't be good imo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by C00T View Post
##4 On third draw BTN can't possible have the same hand if he drew one.
Only hero's hand is shown. Hero stood pat on the third draw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C00T View Post
##5 The only way BTN wins is if Hero folds or paired up on his second draw. (obv he didn't since he stood pat and bet out)
You might want to reread the OP.
swiggidy
Old 01-07-2011, 04:18 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 Have not played too much, but I think this is fine, especially since villain checks behind turn and draws one he isn't that strong

Say he had 2,3,4,6.

2 3 4 5 6 horrible
7 8 9 he'd have to call with
T maybe/prob
J Q K A he can't be happy with

Pure mathematics, on the river, you only need to win 25% so he'd have to call with A high to make this bet bad

Note: I'm only considering river action
Note 2: I may have no idea what I'm talking about
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
 
drmcboy
Old 01-07-2011, 04:25 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C00T View Post
#1 They are both idiots.
#2 Hero should have took only one, not 3 cards. 9 is is not a bad 2-7 hand.
#3 BTN should have folded but since he didn't he should have took 3.
#4 On third draw BTN can't possible have the same hand if he drew one.
#5 The only way BTN wins is if Hero folds or paired up on his second draw. (obv he didn't since he stood pat and bet out)
amazing first post, welcome to FTR!
C00T
Old 01-07-2011, 05:46 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours View Post
You might want to rephrase that.




I would be more inclined to draw to a 987 with position.




I think you mean Hero. Drawing one was just for show. Calling and drawing three again can't be good imo.




Only hero's hand is shown. Hero stood pat on the third draw.



You might want to reread the OP.
OK I take it back. Missed read. Thought you was showing other hand too. But still bad play to draw three with that hand. But good play to draw none on third draw. and good bluff on end. But who won?
pocketfours
Old 01-07-2011, 06:03 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C00T View Post
OK I take it back. Missed read. Thought you was showing other hand too. But still bad play to draw three with that hand. But good play to draw none on third draw. and good bluff on end. But who won?
Shouldn't I just fold instead of drawing one to a 9872 out of position? Villain is probably going to bluff with a lot of hands on the turn and I won't be able to continue even if I hit my hand.

Results are irrelevant for a strategic discussion. He did fold, but he could have had a straight or a big pair for all we know.
pocketfours
Old 01-07-2011, 06:08 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 What I would like to discuss is do we want to lead the turn after deciding to snow?

By checking turn, standing pat and betting river we're representing a missed c/r with a very strong hand. This line also allows us to c/f and abandon mission cheaply which is cool I think. It also gives our opponent worse odds on the river and I don't think he is calling with anything worse than an 86. Since he opened from the BU he very often has a rough draw and isn't very likely to hit.
TLR
Old 01-09-2011, 04:12 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 PreDraw: With your read on villian I think the best play is to call and draw 2 to the 8-7
After first draw: If you decide not to fold here but bluff at it I think I prefer to raise here while the bets are still small, if he comes over the top I would fold, if he calls I would fire again after the 2nd draw
After 2nd draw: I really hate the check-stand pat move here, I would rather bet it and stand pat


 
pocketfours
Old 01-09-2011, 08:53 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLR View Post
After 2nd draw: I really hate the check-stand pat move here, I would rather bet it and stand pat
I hate that play here. He's either going to:

1. Call and pat behind (I'm dead)
2. Raise with a pat hand (I'm dead)
3. Raise as a semibluff (I'm dead)
4. Call and draw to a bluffcatcher that he's going to hit around 75% of the time.
mcatdog
Old 01-10-2011, 01:07 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Folding pre-draw is a leak, I call and draw 2 and I just don't think this is a game where it pays to get creative like this, the vast majority of players are very showdown oriented. At least I agree that leading the turn is terrible.
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