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Fnord
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09-13-2005, 09:59 PM
Post subject: 2+2 starts to understand seat selection
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#1 (permalink)
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http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...o=14&fpart=all
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When you’re playing full ring and you’ve got a 21/12 player on your right, I hope you’re prepared to start folding. A lot. Because unless you’re willing to 3-bet light in smaller pots – and you should occasionally be – you’re going to be getting your Button stolen all the time, and won’t be playing nearly as many hands as you’d like. There are ways to adjust against this sort of player, but in general, if he plays decently postflop, you’re going to be putting yourself at a lot of risk at a table that generally isn’t worthwhile.
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That was the best point in the post IMHO. I thought there were a few conceptual errors and Bison's was better, but that nugget made it worth the read.
Hmmm.... 21/12 and destroying mixed tables... donno anyone who plays like that. 
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ihategnomes
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Louisiana
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Ironically it only took them 7 months to figure out bisonbisons post. 
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Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
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solution to the problem: leave unless the table warrants staying? I agree sitting left of a smart agg player is not advantagous, it's like sitting next to a Gus Hansen in NL, he will be adjusting to the table while you're busy adjusting to him.
this post a lone just kind of dawned a new idea of table selection for me, especially in short handed 2-4 3-6 games
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jmontis
solution to the problem: leave unless the table warrants staying? I agree sitting left of a smart agg player is not advantagous, it's like sitting next to a Gus Hansen in NL, he will be adjusting to the table while you're busy adjusting to him. |
What he's saying is that having position on an sTAgg is bad because he will steal your button and put pressure on your blinds. This puts you in the position of having to fight back against a reasonable hand range that plays reasonably well post-flop via your position and a wider range than many players are comfortable with. When was the last timg you 3-bet ATo from the CO/BN? KQ? 88? This is the first time I've seen a post that discusses the damage done via having your button stolen and further validates some of the theories I've been working on lately reguarding table textures. A lot of aware players play in horrible to luke-warm seats/games for no good reason.
However, I think the most of the damage is done because your prime milking seat is occupied by a gal who isn't going to put-out.
This also makes me laugh when you guys who know my Empire handle take position on me...
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
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so in theory, an ideal 6max table would be
UTG, UTG+1, Hero,Button, SB, BB
UTG and UTG+1 are loose passive
Button SB and BB are too tight, folding to CO raises regularly
or just a total fish fest if you can find it 
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Yes, but I'll take the perfect seat at a mixed table over the fish fry any day. Less gambling and the hands in the mixed game are more interesting to play.
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
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I think I sat in an almost ideal 3-6 6max game earlier, If they called my CO/button raises, I'd take it down on the flop with ace high or total trash, and sometimes i'd pair up, then they'd bluff it to the river with overcards.
I'm starting to fold ace high less often heads up, and flopped pairs less often, and I win more
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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ihategnomes
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,225
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If you ever see someone type, *cute refernce to Fnord's screenname deleted*, that would be me
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Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
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ihategnomes
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,225
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Sorry fnord 
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Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
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thenonsequitur
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
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I've only really started to apply proper seat selection in the past few months. It's certainly been extremely valuable. But here's a problem I find myself trying to solve.
Say you find yourself sitting at a table in a poker room where all the tables in the limits you are willing to play are full (and/or empty), so you can't be picky about your seat (this sometimes happens to me on crypto late night weekdays).
You find yourself sitting directly to the left of Villian, a TAG that can also play well post-flop. Villian is sitting directly to the left of a couple of LPs. Villian is also aware of the players sitting around him.
So he is frequently raising from MP/CO in attempts to steal your button and/or isolate the weak LPs stting to his right. Do you have no choice but to let him do this? Or, do you gamble a bit, and knowing that Villian has opened up his range of raising hands, can you profitibily open up your own range of 3-betting hands? Or will that just get you into too many heads-up battles with non-premium hands, a pot worth fighting for, and a strong opponent?
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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This is one of those things I would never think to write about but have always been aware of. I hate sitting right after an aggressive player, they seem to always beat me into the pot with position raises and make me defend my blinds every damn time. I do actually three-bet a lot in these situations with mediocre hands, or take an alternate tack of calling and then check-raising any flop and leading out on the turn. But that's a pretty expensive crapshoot to partake in. I'd rather not have to think that hard every time I'm in the blinds.
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