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dev
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03-19-2009, 05:22 AM
Post subject: 100PLO hand deep
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($40)
MP ($107.50)
CO ($48.50)
Button ($234.95)
SB ($50.65)
Hero (BB) ($171.85)
Preflop: Hero is BB with Q , K , 5, 2
3 folds, Button bets $3.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $10, Button calls $6.50
Flop: ($20.50) 8 , A, 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $20.50, Button raises to $55
I'm a donk at PLO, but I was probably the second best player at this table. The best is the villain in this hand. My two main questions are, should I be check/raising here and should I commit on this flop?
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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PF is bad for many reasons, including:
1. you're deep
2. your hand really really really sucks
3. you're OOP
4. your hand really really really sucks
5. villain is good
his flop raise size makes so little sense, that I'm not quite sure if he's trying to induce, raise/fold, or is just making a ridiculous bluff. I might stick it in and feel owned when he shows me the nizzles. I'm just not sure what he possibly raises on this flop besides AAxx. He can have worse draws but even then our equity against his range isn't that great if he has like AAxx, TTxx, and wraps with spades.
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allabout
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: VA USA
Posts: 276
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Just curious why you 3bet pre?
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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Elmer Letterman
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,601
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agree with spenda on pre flop 100%, holy nightmare batman.
As played I like the flop lead. from there with these stack sizes he can still fold if you shove and really could fold everything but AA so I think you have to try it. If he had re potted I might consider a fold. With this bet I think we have to at least call and our implied odds are eh so I'd rather just shove and hope he has like KQJT and will fold/spike a spade.
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,601
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wow you are 60/40 dog to 4 big cards!
http://www.propokertools.com/simulat...2s&h3=&h4=&h5=
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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He was really abusing position. He rarely played UTG and open raised button and CO every chance he got. I guess I just chose the wrong hand to play back with.
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dev
He was really abusing position. He rarely played UTG and open raised button and CO every chance he got. I guess I just chose the wrong hand to play back with.
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Well I'll tell you one thing you shouldn't do, is try to play huge pots deep OOP against him! This isn't NL, people don't fold to 3bets, there are no huge equity edges PF (except maybe when you repop KQ52ds for your opponent), and position is key. Instead of getting into silly wars against this guy when you're in the blinds start 3betting him light when you're OTB.
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davis13
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One Pair
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 24
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As said, PF is beyond horrible and I would not suprised to see AAxx with trash side cards that "slowplayed" pf. Wait for more cordinated hands like AQJ9ss, QJT8ss to play back at him, KQ52 is a fold from every position besides the CO/BTN. With the flop action as played, I think we have to shove having 11 nut outs and he could fold a lot worse even though your percieved range is AAxx and he says he doesn't care so I would be a bit worried.
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IronMonkey
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High Card
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 10
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solid flop for a mediocre hand pre lucky dog
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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Tnx drmcboy and Spenda. I don't get to play PLO often, but I might start playing it a bit more. This has been enlightening.
davis and ironmonkey, kindly freetroll elsewhere.
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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davis13
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One Pair
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 24
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Troll? Thats pretty funny, nice attitude though. I said preflop was horrible in which it was, you don't want to 3 bet terrible hands when most players bad and good do not fold to 3 bets. There is generally no fold equity preflop in PLO. If you can't take critism why bother posting?
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salsa4ever
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by davis13
Troll? Thats pretty funny, nice attitude though. I said preflop was horrible in which it was, you don't want to 3 bet terrible hands when most players bad and good do not fold to 3 bets. There is generally no fold equity preflop in PLO. If you can't take critism why bother posting?
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i agree
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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poker3player333
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 52
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dev
He was really abusing position. He rarely played UTG and open raised button and CO every chance he got. I guess I just chose the wrong hand to play back with.
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Well I'll tell you one thing you shouldn't do, is try to play huge pots deep OOP against him! This isn't NL, people don't fold to 3bets, there are no huge equity edges PF (except maybe when you repop KQ52ds for your opponent), and position is key. Instead of getting into silly wars against this guy when you're in the blinds start 3betting him light when you're OTB. |
Yep-with those big starting stacks pots can get big and ugly quickly. Be careful on these hands. Don't wanna lose your stack drawing to a hand like this.
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siltstrider
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 85
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Why doesn't hero call the flop raise as played? He seems to have the right odds for it. The pot will be big enough to get it in later, won't it?
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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silts
hero should ship over flop raise and get it in, we are never bet/folding this flop with gutter +NFD. We can actually be ahead if he doesn't have an ace and has just pair + draw
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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hmmmmmmmm sometimes I stop n go
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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spenda plz explain, interesting
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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I'd do it with a slightly better draw when I think my opponents range is made of sets (shoving any non board pairing turn) or when we're slightly deeper and I have like 2nd/3rd set (looking for a blank turn)
Here, this is not a cut/dry bet/3bet on the flop b/c our equity really sucks against a lot of hands making this raise. What are we, ~33% against a set and probably like a 60/40 dog vs. AXXX with FD blocker and gutterball. Overall it's a pretty interesting spot, I'm def. not thrilled to b/3bet here.
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