www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

.10/.20 hands

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

Chopper

03-24-2008, 06:10 AM Post subject: .10/.20 hands

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

want advice post flop, please.

one...villains are 48/4/2, 56/26/1, and 33/0/1 respectively, but i am new to table...about 25 hands.

0.1/0.2 Limit Holdem
10 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($9.18)
UTG+1 ($4.18)
UTG+2 ($3.09)
MP1 ($1.95)
MP2 ($1.56)
Hero ($5.85)
CO ($0.79)
BTN ($2.75)
SB ($3.90)
BB ($4.52)

Pre-flop: (1.5 SB, 10 players) Hero is MP3

UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 4 folds, UTG 4-bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls

Flop:

(17.5 SB, 4 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls

Turn:

(10.8 BB, 4 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero??

is raising the flop better? or, as played, is this a call still or now a clear fold?

two...same villains as one, the first two villains...

0.1/0.2 Limit Holdem
10 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($0.69)
UTG+1 ($6.37)
UTG+2 ($3.93)
MP1 ($4.45)
MP2 ($10.41)
MP3 ($3.08)
CO ($4.00)
BTN ($1.75)
SB ($3.40)
Hero ($5.35)
[CO posted 0.1]

Pre-flop: (2.5 SB, 10 players) Hero is BB

3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO checks, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero checks

Flop:

(5.0 SB, 5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP2 3-bets, 1 fold, SB folds, Hero calls, MP1 4-bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls

Turn:

(8.5 BB, 3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls

River:

(11.5 BB, 3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks

Final Pot: 11.5 BB
Hero shows:

MP1 shows:

MP2 shows:

Hero wins 10.9 BB ( won +7.4 BB )
SB lost 0.5 BB
MP1 lost 3.5 BB
MP2 lost 3.5 BB
CO lost 0.5 BB

did i miss value on flop and turn by not being more aggro? i had originally planned to c/r blank river and call a 3bet, but the Kd jacked me up. thinking on turn that the AdXd made the nuts, am i seeing monsters?

three...no real reads. donkeys left table...lol.

0.1/0.2 Limit Holdem
9 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($3.65)
Hero ($8.81)
MP1 ($3.37)
MP2 ($3.60)
MP3 ($4.47)
CO ($11.95)
BTN ($2.53)
SB ($3.61)
BB ($3.06)
[MP3 posted 0.1]

Pre-flop: (2.5 SB, 9 players) Hero is UTG+1

1 fold, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, 4 folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls

Flop:

(9.5 SB, 4 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls

Turn:

(6.8 BB, 4 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 calls, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls

River:

(12.8 BB, 3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, MP3 raises, Hero folds, MP2 calls

1) was the fold right?
2) what was our best plan if checked to? c/c or b/f?
3) was calling the flop a donkey move? should i have raised or folded instead?

many thanks.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

DrivingDog

03-24-2008, 10:08 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Location: UK

Posts: 923

Hand 1: It's hard to conceive that you could be ahead on this flop. An Ace on board, heavy preflop action, and a bettor and two callers ahead of you. You might have odds to peel but if you are up against AA and/or a club draw you are mostly just drawing for the chance to lose more money. With the Qc in my hand I would peel.

Hand 2: I would c/r the turn. You're almost certainly best here and if not, them's the breaks. But you have to pump the pot when it's most likely you're winning. I think as played you can b/f the river.

Hand 3: I would probably b/f the river.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).

Chopper

03-24-2008, 12:58 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

thank you. i am struggling a bit with WHEN to c/c and allow players to bluff with worse, and when we should b/f and get more possible value. and, to some degree the "feel" for when its a b/f or b/c. i played very well last night, as a whole, but still feel as though i left value on the table here and there. and, i dont think you can move up a bit higher until you feel like you got all they had to give more consistently.

any tips?...conceptually speaking. is it just an experience thing? i am a NL player by trade, and although its still wrong to not capitalize on the same situations, often the pot is big enough that you can get away w/ missing a little value here and there. i dont think thats the case in limit.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

DrivingDog

03-24-2008, 02:18 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Location: UK

Posts: 923

Generally players at the lower limits are fairly easy to read. They tend to play a loose passive style. So you see a lot of the following:

1) They tend to call down with any chance of winning. Bottom pair or a single overcard is often a reason to call for them. So bet and raise for value with good hands. Middle pair good kicker is often enough for a bet on the river against two opponents who've just been calling the whole way.

2) They tend to be somewhat oblivious to what other people might be holding. You will get calls from one pair hands on a four flush or four straight board. Bet any top pair or straight/flush card for value.

3) They play scared and/or goofy. That means their raises are usually either very strong or horribly implausible bluffs. So when you get raised, look at the board and if a draw completed or you have a modest hand yourself, you can usually fold. Otherwise you can usually call down.

4) It still helps to know your opponents and have reads because they do not all play in the same transparent way. Some are good players that just don't have the BR for higher levels yet and others are incredibly bad - I've seen guys at 2/4 even that flop the nuts and then check every street down.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).

KoRnholio

03-24-2008, 06:31 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 2,165

KoRnholio will become famous soon enough

1. Fold the turn, at least one of them has an ace here. Peeling/floating the flop might not even be right, depending on how these guys play.

2. zomg check-raaaaaise that turn to get an extra bet (or more) from each of them). A 4th diamond will either kill all your action or lose you the pot.

3. River I would check-call one bet, but I fold to the raise since you are most likely behind at least one of them, and may not even get to show down for 2 bets.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

Chopper

03-24-2008, 07:38 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

wow. i'm a bit surprised that i played 2 of the 3 well. the JdTd hand, i failed to flood the pot because i was seeing monsters. i laid off another hand w/ KK when the A hit the flop and the action went ballistic, too. and the KK hand was BY FAR best. that hand got me thinking about where to b/f, c/c, c/r, etc at these low stakes.

i can also apparently play a MUCH wider range of hands from mid position, and likely from ep, too. that stuns me. and, i like it, frankly.

dog, as for your tips...thank you very much. i have already seen enough of that stuff to lighten up on what i call down with, but i cant help it, i am still a bit of a nit. hopefully, that changes.

at what levels do you start to see the GENERAL play get tougher? i have beaten .50/1 over mid-sized samples, but it seemed noticeably different than even .25/.50...but that may have been the way the cards were matching up, too. right now, i think that i would struggle a bit at 1/2 since i dont have a handle on fundamentals like jamming the pot in the JTs hand. sound right? or is that too high, or overly pussy thinking?

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

DrivingDog

03-24-2008, 09:28 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Location: UK

Posts: 923

I've played from 0.5/1 to 10/20 levels and I definitely think each one is harder than the one below it on average. But all levels have their good and bad players; the difference is that the good players are better at the high levels (which usually means more tight/aggressive but some players are successful at being loose/aggressive as well) and the bad players are fewer. The trick is to be good enough not to lose your shirt to the good players and smart enough to sit at the tables where the bad players are and get a seat to their left. If you can hold your own against the good players you will find profit as long as there is one bad player at the table and you have position on him.

I would guess the majority of people at .10/.20 are probably just there for recreation so I would not expect to meet much serious competition until you go up a few levels.

Some people like to brag that they cruised up to from .01/.02 to 50/100 in a week or something ridiculous like that but I'm a reasonably smart guy and it took me about 500k hands to get to where I'm comfortable at a 5/10 or 10/20 game. And mostly that's because I only play good seats at soft tables - if i can't find one at 10/20 I'll go down the list until I get to 1/2, where there seems to always be a few. So don't just limit yourself to one level - you're much better off in a soft game at .5/1 than a hard game at .10/.20 imo. Just make sure your roll is always at least 150BB for the highest level you're playing and if it falls below that don't play at that level until it goes above it again.

Finally I'd say the most important thing to keep in mind as you move up is that your reads become much more important. You can't compete against good players without learning their tendencies because they are certainly doing their best to learn yours. Also, don't assume that because someone is bad preflop that they are also bad postflop. Look first at how they play postflop when judging them, because it's postflop where most of the money is made or lost. I see otherwise good players raising a fish who plays every hand with A high 0n the river when they know damn well he's not going to fold bottom pair.

Anyways, good luck.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).

Chopper

03-24-2008, 10:42 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

thanks. i like the "not limiting yourself to one level" idea. you should post this reply in beginner's solely because it's just sound advice for newbies.

it sounds like, with decent table/seat selection, i wont be completely outclassed for a few levels, although it will get increasingly tougher to sit with gobs of fish.

and, 150 BB's for a roll? wow, i always heard 300+. and, with the longer swings in variance i understand limit games will give you, i was questioning whether THAT was enough.

any reasoning behind the 150 as opposed to the biblical 300?

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

DrivingDog

03-24-2008, 11:34 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Location: UK

Posts: 923

I think the 300-500 BB thing assumes you stay at one specific limit until you either have enough bankroll for the next limit or you go broke. The idea I believe is to give you enough time to learn the next limit while protecting yourself from variance.

When you play multiple limits not every game you play will be at your highest limit. In fact, most games will be at the lower limits of your range because that's where the softest games will be. Thus you need less of a bankroll because you are risking less in each game on average than if you played just games at your highest limit.

There's five advantages to this strategy I think:

1) you can almost never go broke, since you will always have at least 150BB for whatever is the highest level you play at.

2) You can play games at a number of levels, and learn how the play differs at each level while you're at it. You get to learn the higher levels gradually rather than just using the sink or swim method.

3) The easy games at the low levels support your bankroll by giving you the means to pad it while you're learning the higher levels.

4) It makes the game a bit easier psychologically - i.e., you don't feel so bad about having a losing session of 10/20 if you also had two winning sessions of 5/10 and one at 1/2 at the same time. Also you don't feel that you should be spending all your time at a particular level or feel like a loser if you drop one of the higher levels. It just becomes part of the learning process.

5) Most of all, you can pick from a much larger assortment of games. It's sooo much easier to find four good games when you have several levels to choose from rather than just one.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).

Chopper

03-25-2008, 12:55 AM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

great points!! and, i have never heard them explained quite like that; even though, i sort of implement the "level bouncing" when playing NL. i get told not to, but its nothing to bounce down to pad another couple BIs for the higher limit. i just used to feel like a loser for doing that because it is SO against popular advice. ha! not anymore. this response gets copy/pasted to several friends.

i especially like point #4. the "mental" side of poker is sooooo huge. and, right along with it, confidence can mean more to your game than card selection or post flop skill, imo. that makes point 4 really hit home for me.

thanks again.

if i can put together another session, of any length, i may post some more hands in here. i hate to let the thread die when it has such kernels built into it. thanks, dog, for everything so far.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

Chopper

03-25-2008, 05:05 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

here's another or two...

0.1/0.2 Limit Holdem
10 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($6.31)
UTG+1 ($7.04)
UTG+2 ($6.62)
MP1 ($5.12)
MP2 ($4.02)
Hero ($3.90)
CO ($4.56)
BTN ($1.66)
SB ($3.84)
BB ($6.73)

Pre-flop: (1.5 SB, 10 players) Hero is MP3

UTG says "nh", 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB checks

Flop:

(6.0 SB, 6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls

Turn:

(7.0 BB, 4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB calls

River:

(10.0 BB, 3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls

did i make a mistake by only calling turn? should i have raised w/ 2nd pair + flush/2pr outs?
i didnt like the raise on river, but felt this was at least a bet/call situation. should we 3bet/call river? how aggro do we want to be, w/o reads, on a non-nut hand?

i felt i played this well. i figured that once they all called one bet on flop, no one was folding to two more. didnt like the paired river, so i didnt go for a c/r, but elected to b/c. anything i did wrong?

0.1/0.2 Limit Holdem
9 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
Hero ($3.85)
UTG+1 ($4.49)
MP1 ($3.70)
MP2 ($10.18)
MP3 ($3.85)
CO ($10.81)
BTN ($9.95)
SB ($11.83)
BB ($3.80)

Pre-flop: (1.5 SB, 9 players) Hero is UTG

Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, BTN calls, SB calls, 1 fold

Flop:

(11.0 SB, 5 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, BTN raises, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, BTN calls, SB calls

Turn:

(13.0 BB, 5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, CO calls, SB says "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz24 fiori", BTN calls, SB calls, Hero calls

River:

(23.0 BB, 5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, BTN calls, SB folds

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

KoRnholio

03-25-2008, 05:56 PM

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 2,165

Hand 1 - I probably cap that river. With the 3rd nuts I don't see how he show up with Adxd or Qdxd here ever. His line looks like KJ to me.

Hand 2 - Looks good, I would probably check-raise the river though with UTG+1 and 2 others behind you. It seems unlikely anyone is full, but someone with a straight or trip 9's will probably bet and then call a raise.

Your line is consistent with AA so far, I doubt they will put you on the flush (until you raise, that is

)

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

DrivingDog

03-25-2008, 06:35 PM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Location: UK

Posts: 923

I love how they almost all never fold.

Hand 1: Yeah I'd probably cap at this level. SB could be overplaying a K2 or K6 or other fishy hand. Or he could have a smaller flush. Once in a while he'll have you beat but I think you're ahead often enough to cap this.

Hand 2: Looks fine. I prefer to lead out the river here since the paired board and flush card could freeze anyone else from betting. And of course they will pay you off.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).

Chopper

03-27-2008, 09:26 PM

#14 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

this one is a copy of a email to a friend. so, its a brag that i didnt care to edit. but, the questions at the end are legit. please help me with those...

sorry this site wont support the converter. assume no reads, but for the sake of the questions at the end, put ourselves in VILLAIN's shoes...

Hand #1452011956000113: Prague 11956
Seat 1: Vova*** (3.60 in chips)
Seat 2: depo*** (7.60 in chips)
Seat 3: fish*** (6.03 in chips)
Seat 4: gran*** (13.96 in chips)
Seat 5: Zenu*** (11.31 in chips)
Seat 6: play4rollz (3.50 in chips)
Seat 7: Uno*** (13.35 in chips)
Seat 8: ss c*** (2.10 in chips)
Seat 9: Pedo*** (6.88 in chips)
Seat 10: craz*** (8.22 in chips)
Vova***: posts small blind $0.05
depo***: posts big blind $0.10
Dealt to play4rollz [ Kh Qh ]
fish***: calls
gran***: calls
Zenu***: calls
play4rollz: raises to $0.20
Uno***: folds
ss c***: calls
Pedo***: calls
craz***: folds
Vova***: calls
depo***: folds
fish***: calls
gran***: calls
Zenu***: calls
@@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ 9d Th Jc ]
Vova***: checks
fish***: checks
gran***: checks
Zenu***: checks
play4rollz: bets $0.10
ss c***: raises to $0.20
Pedo***: folds
Vova***: calls
fish***: calls
gran***: calls
Zenu***: calls
play4rollz: raises to $0.30
ss c***: calls
Vova***: calls
fish***: calls
gran***: calls
Zenu***: calls
# # # TURN # # # [ 4d ]
Vova***: checks
fish***: checks
gran***: checks
Zenu***: checks
play4rollz: bets $0.20
ss c***: raises to $0.40
Vova***: folds
fish***: folds
gran***: folds
Zenu***: calls
play4rollz: raises to $0.60
ss c***: calls
Zenu***: calls
&&& RIVER &&& [ As ]
Zenu***: checks
play4rollz: bets $0.20
ss c***: calls
Zenu***: calls
*** SHOW DOWN ***
play4rollz: shows [ Kh Qh ] (Straight, Ace high)
ss c***: mucks
Zenu***: mucks
play4rollz wins $5.50 with Straight, Ace high

LOLOLOLOLOL....sucker.

can you believe he didnt slow down? i guess on the turn he picked up a flush draw, but still. i know i slow down and hope my flush sticks the dick in his ass. but, is that wrong because if he has KQ, wont the flush card slow HIM down?

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

Latest Poker News
KoRnholio	05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:27 AM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

All Other (Limit) Poker

.10/.20 hands

Play for FREE and practice your game at...