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A 10/20 hands

  
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 08-25-2006, 02:27 PM     Post subject: A 10/20 hands #1 (permalink)  
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 1) Villain is pretty loose passive, i know his agg is like .5 or something.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T, A. MP posts a blind of $10.
1 fold, MP (poster) checks, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, BB calls, MP calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 9, T, 8 (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, MP calls, Hero raises, SB calls, BB 3-bets, MP calls, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls, MP calls.

Turn: (14 BB) T (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds, MP calls.

River: (20 BB) 2 (3 players)
SB checks, MP bets, [color=#CC3333]Hero ...



2) Villain: 30/20/2 standard tag.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4, 4.
UTG raises, 1 fold, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 2, 9, 8 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero ...


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midas06
Old 08-25-2006, 02:50 PM #2 (permalink)  
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hand 1 you raised since it's in red. 0.5 agg isn't tooooooooo passive so I play it the same.

hand 2 just ditch the turn
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elipsesjeff
Old 08-25-2006, 04:09 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1: Well, I thought so, but looking back his passivity would almost mean he can beat the flush. His hand, is, well, amusing.

Hand 2: Isn't this the result I wanted by donking the flop with my underpair? Ideally, I want what possibly could be overcards to raise for a free card, fold everyone else out and have it HU. Then, when he doesn't take his free card, thats supposed to mean what exactly?

If it is 3 way on the turn and he bets again I always fold. Too bad I don't have the 4 of hearts either...


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ilikeaces86
Old 08-25-2006, 05:19 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 Hand One is def raise on river.

Hand 2 Probably fold turn
 
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chardrian
Old 08-25-2006, 07:14 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Hand 1 I don't see how u can't raise the river.

Hand 2 - you are only beating str8 draws. Depending on the opp, I don't mind a raise there (if they can fold turns), but I think the best play is to dump it.
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elipsesjeff
Old 08-25-2006, 07:16 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 If I am ahead in hand 2, is there any way to know it given opponent's line and do I want him to fold?


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chardrian
Old 08-25-2006, 07:22 PM #7 (permalink)  
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If you are ahead in hand two, there is no way to know it, and yes you want him to fold if you are raising there.

So yes, you are right, a raise is spewage there.
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elipsesjeff
Old 08-25-2006, 09:15 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 His bet is only correct when he has folding equity. If you are able to guarantee him zero folding equity when there is a good chance he has overcards and you have a pair, then his bet is no longer +EV (although he doesn't know it), he makes the mistake in betting, and he loses in the long run.

The only thing I can bash about my opponent in Hand 2 is that he again bet the turn. I'm a Tag, he knows that I'm a tag, and a tag only donks the flop into a preflop raiser when he has a pair (to protect it). Some third level thinking there that this guy must have missed.

Some questions that I would like discussion on are:

Do you fold A9 or A8 here? I'm guessing no, but if you're behind you have usually 5 outs to win. But if he again bets the river is your hand good?

Am I saying never to fold a pair against a preflop raiser UTG?

Is it correct to on a 9 high board?

What percentage of the time will he have a 9 in his hand coming from an UTG raise (only A9), and what percent of the time will he have TT-AA and makes this same raise?j

How often will he make this raise with just overcards?

I mean, how different is Hand 2 up there to this hand, assume also a tag:

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 6, A. UTG posts a blind of $10.
Hero raises, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6, 7, T (3 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) J (3 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.75 BB) 8 (3 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

Again, I argue the only way a TAG bets this river is if he has a monster or is bluffing, trying to get a pair to fold. Maybe its hard for me to explain but I would like to here some comments.


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