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10,000 hands

  
 
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Shark Bait
Old 08-04-2005, 05:18 AM     Post subject: 10,000 hands #1 (permalink)  
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OK so I finally made it to 10,000 hands. I only play 1 table, but I try to really analyze the other players and pick good tables and seats, so I'm sure I'm doing better than if I was just randomly picking tables and not paying attention to other players stats.

The 10,000 hands I have here are from various LOW limits so keep that in mind. I'm currently playing 25/50 cent and I'm looking for ways to improve there. I was doing pretty good for several weeks, averaging between 3-5BB/100. But now my average has slipped to slightly over 0. I'm not really sure what's going on, and I hate to say the usual things (you know what I'm talking about)

So first, here are some stats from almost all my limit play:

Total hands: 10,420
VP$IP: 19.61%
Won when saw flop: 25.89%
BB/100: 4.78
Preflop raise: 6.38%
Went to showdown: 31.99%
Won at showdown: 47.02%
AF (with preflop): 1.44
AF (without preflop): 2.83

So that all looks decent I think, especially the BB/100, but remember that wasn't too difficult at low and micro limits. Since I'm currently playing 25/50 cent, I'll give you the stats for just that, which I've found has been much more difficult, especially lately.

Total hands: 2,654
VP$IP: 19.86%
Won when saw flop: 30.09%
BB/100: 0.15
Preflop raise: 6.48%
Went to showdown: 28.76%
Won at showdown: 51.28%
AF (with preflop): 1.54
AF (without preflop): 3.98

Is there anything else I should be looking at? If so, I'll post it. Thanks for your help.
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elipsesjeff
Old 08-04-2005, 07:15 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 It looks like you are seeing a little bit too many hands at this level. I'm sure this is a biproduct of single tabling. Once you start multitabling this should go down some. You really don't need to rely on reads or whatnot at this low levels, play is strictly by-the-book. Get your VPIP down and your PFR up and you should do fine. You'll probably win more if you see a few more showdowns too....just dont overcall.


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Shark Bait
Old 08-04-2005, 07:37 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
It looks like you are seeing a little bit too many hands at this level. I'm sure this is a biproduct of single tabling. Once you start multitabling this should go down some. You really don't need to rely on reads or whatnot at this low levels, play is strictly by-the-book. Get your VPIP down and your PFR up and you should do fine. You'll probably win more if you see a few more showdowns too....just dont overcall.
I've never understand why playing more tables means a lower VP$IP ?

I would like to get into multitabling, but this means that I won't be able to pay attention to their stats very much.

I would argue that reads are important at these low levels because there's such a varying degree of players. At a table right now I've got a guy with a 95% VP$IP and a 20% PFR. I change my play accordingly when I'm against him. At higher limits you just don't see too much of this stupid play.

I've considered upping the PFR (others have suggested this as well) But raising means very little to these players and I'll often get 3 or more cold callers, and my hand quickly loses value. Obviously I'm raising with the top hands, but if I have something like AJo and other people are already in the hand, I usually just limp as well. Unless there are a few tight players after me, in that case a raise is pretty standard. Also if I'm on the BB with something like AQ or AJ I am usually checking because no one is folding. In higher limits do people ever limp/fold to 1 raise? I've seen it like twice.

Another question I have is about open limping...should I ever do this? Or should I raise no matter what I have if I'm going to be playing and no one has called before me? I think eliminating the open limp may bump up my PFR just enough.
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Shark Bait
Old 08-04-2005, 07:53 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Oh also...I will try to work on lowering the VP$IP, and thanks for the advice.
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A10Chief
Old 08-04-2005, 08:00 AM #5 (permalink)  
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I'm pretty new at this, too, but I think the preflop raise isn't so much to narrow the field, but to get the $$$ in the pot while you have a big edge. In other words, you have the best hand right now, so make those other guys pay through the nose if they want to "see what comes on the flop" as is the mantra of so many low limit players. Narrowing the field is a by-product sometimes. Now, with that said, the preflop reraise is designed to isolate a preflop raiser to your right, because then it's forcing those to your left to call three cold, which is a big no-no. If it works, good for you.If it doesn't and they call with a crap hand to "see if the flop hits them," that's great for you in the long run because it's dead money.
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Old 08-04-2005, 08:53 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A10Chief
I'm pretty new at this, too, but I think the preflop raise isn't so much to narrow the field, but to get the $$$ in the pot while you have a big edge. In other words, you have the best hand right now, so make those other guys pay through the nose if they want to "see what comes on the flop" as is the mantra of so many low limit players. Narrowing the field is a by-product sometimes. Now, with that said, the preflop reraise is designed to isolate a preflop raiser to your right, because then it's forcing those to your left to call three cold, which is a big no-no. If it works, good for you.If it doesn't and they call with a crap hand to "see if the flop hits them," that's great for you in the long run because it's dead money.
The way I see it is there are the 2 reasons to raise like you mentioned, and I believe both are important, but at the low limits raising to isolate just doesn't work. You're only getting more money in the pot. And with AJo going to the flop with 6 players, bad things happen.

Also you bring up the 3 bet to isolate, which actually DOES work to some degree at these low limits, because even the fish rarely cold call 3 bets. I will do this for sure if I think I can get heads up with a moronic preflop raiser.
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Fnord
Old 08-04-2005, 08:58 AM #7 (permalink)  
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My last session of 2/4....

558 hands
23.66% VP$IP
15.23% PFR
32% WtSD
53% W$@SD
57.14% Steal
8.42BB/100
net +$188.14

Granted, I had AA 3 times, KK 6 times, QQ 3 times and AKs 4 times...
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rubixstreub
Old 08-04-2005, 02:20 PM #8 (permalink)  
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I think you're overthinking the PFR and the reason being you're sitting at one table analyzing everything. At these limits you should almost go into robot mode, play it strictly by the book. I find the best way to do that is to multi-table (whatever you feel comfortable with). I play 4, but would easily try to get up to 8 if I had another monitor. That way you wont feel bad tossing those AJo that you raised with late, when Kxx hits and people start betting. Just let it go and something better will come along on another one of your other tables soon enough.

You'll have to pitch a lot of the hands you PFRed with once the flop hits, but more often then not you'll be beting into another top pair with a shit kicker or somebody on the draw getting the wrong odds to make those calls.

Unless you have incredible patience, playing one table usually forces you to play more hands than you should, and call down more, because you're board and you want action.
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Shark Bait
Old 08-05-2005, 05:47 AM #9 (permalink)  
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I guess the multitabling just isn't for me. I quickly went up 20BB, then quickly dropped 30BB.

stats for tonight were SUPER AWESOME:

368 hands
VP$IP: 17.66
won when saw flop: 32.14%
went to SD: 25%
won at SD: 38.10%
PFR: 5.43%

and the best stat for last:
BB/100: (5.08)

yes, very small sample, so please no suggestions here...lol

So I think I'm just going to go back to the single tabling for a while. I don't know what it is...if I'm less concentrated on the game or if it's just variance, but I'm never winning when I play more than 1 table.
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Demiparadigm
Old 08-05-2005, 08:00 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Where are you playing?
The UB .25/.5 game is relatively tough... about the level of Party 2/4
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Fnord
Old 08-05-2005, 08:00 AM #11 (permalink)  
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You play too tight and don't raise enough pre-flop
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Shark Bait
Old 08-05-2005, 08:44 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
Where are you playing?
The UB .25/.5 game is relatively tough... about the level of Party 2/4
Are you serious? I've heard UB was a little harder than some of the other sites...but not by that much. The only 2 sites that have software that I can stand are party and UB. And I play UB because of the 5% rake. What level does party switch to a 5% rake? I really don't want to be playing with a 10% rake.

So it will be a while before I have the 'roll to play on party I think.
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euphoricism
Old 08-06-2005, 02:36 PM #13 (permalink)  
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.5/1 at party is 5% rake.

I think youre taking too many hands to showdown that are second best (seems obvious). Won when saw flop: 25.89% is a bit on the low side, and won at showdown: 47.02% should be what, closer to 60%?
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Old 08-06-2005, 11:21 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
.5/1 at party is 5% rake.

I think youre taking too many hands to showdown that are second best (seems obvious). Won when saw flop: 25.89% is a bit on the low side, and won at showdown: 47.02% should be what, closer to 60%?
Did they change it? Last time I checked I think it was 10% until 2/4 or 1/2

EDIT: I just checked, and party's rake is 10% for .5/1 and 1/2. At 2/4 it goes down to 5%.

I think 60% won at SD is too high. Kinda hard to say that, but when it's too high it means I'm not bringing enough hands to the showdown, and only showing hands I know will win. I've heard people say things like this is "leaving too much money on the table" because I'm sometimes folding something like ace high when it may be the winner.
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