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$10 PLO 8b-2 hands

  
 
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bigspenda73
Old 05-07-2007, 04:10 AM     Post subject: $10 PLO 8b-2 hands #1 (permalink)  
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 Don't know why I play this game, seems like a total crapshoot to me. I am being serious though and I would like to play better. Should I only be playing Limit 8b and PL/Limit Hi? I am rolled for $50PLO and 1/2 or 2/4 Limit 8b. I just do not think I am ready to play these games profitably especially on UB where the games are pretty dry. If I were to continue I think I'd have to go over to PokerStars/FullTilt.


Typical low-limit loose PF play.

Meh, not really sure what to do on the turn. I mean I'm not folding this at this level ever but what's the right line? Probably no answer as this is a dumb game.
http://www.pokerhand.org/?1069763

I wonder if raising PF w/ my table structure in 8b is even good here. I have no idea what to do. I think I should bet the turn to make low draws disappear but Im never folding out the NFD+low draw.
http://www.pokerhand.org/?1069776
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salsa4ever
Old 05-08-2007, 05:13 AM #2 (permalink)  
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hand 1 is just pointless to comment on at these stakes... any line will give you similar EV here. Give me the hand at 200 or 400PLO8 and deeper stacks and then we have a decision. You played it fine

hand 2 you're way overvaluing it. Raising UTG sux, and a hand with no low is pretty much never worth raising in that position regardless of the stakes. Don't bet the turn OOP either. What do you do when NFD+low reraises you? I just limp pre flop and check fold the flop. This whole hand is mainly spewage.
Quote:
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Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
 
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bigspenda73
Old 05-08-2007, 05:33 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salsa4ever
hand 2 you're way overvaluing it. Raising UTG sux, and a hand with no low is pretty much never worth raising in that position regardless of the stakes. Don't bet the turn OOP either. What do you do when NFD+low reraises you? I just limp pre flop and check fold the flop. This whole hand is mainly spewage.
Yea, I realize this now. It doesn't seem like you're overvaluing the hand until you get to the turn OOP on that board. Then it's a "oh-shit", why did I build a pot OOP w/o a premium 8b hand?
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swiggidy
Old 05-08-2007, 05:53 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 I haven't actually played Omaha8 yet, so take this FWIW. Also, I think 8b is usually limit. Didn't you play a lot of limit?

Hand 1 - This is simply a bad hand, especially multi-way. It's un-connected with a bad low and one shitty flush possibility. If a 4 comes giving you the straight then you have to worry about low draws splitting the pot.

Hand 2 - I still like raising pre. Since they call too much, might as play for stacks with your good hands.
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bigspenda73
Old 05-08-2007, 01:22 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
I haven't actually played Omaha8 yet, so take this FWIW. Also, I think 8b is usually limit. Didn't you play a lot of limit?

Hand 1 - This is simply a bad hand, especially multi-way. It's un-connected with a bad low and one shitty flush possibility. If a 4 comes giving you the straight then you have to worry about low draws splitting the pot.

Hand 2 - I still like raising pre. Since they call too much, might as play for stacks with your good hands.
Yea, I usually play PLO Hi and Limit Hi/Lo; however, the only real game going was this.

In hand 1 Im not sure if you're talking about PF as I believe I was the BB. I'm wondering the merits of a c/r but the game is so passive that a set may not even bet at that board. Obv when the turn comes I still would like to get value out of the two callers as long as one doesn't have a set and the other doesnt have A4 Im still winning 1/2 money in a 3way pot. Of course I could get quartered but I just believe if someone had the same holdings then they would have raised the flop.

My real fear here is I've slowed down a set from one player and A4, overvalued my hand, and thus am just spewing into the nuts on both end.
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salsa4ever
Old 05-08-2007, 04:17 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
I haven't actually played Omaha8 yet, so take this FWIW. Also, I think 8b is usually limit. Didn't you play a lot of limit?

Hand 1 - This is simply a bad hand, especially multi-way. It's un-connected with a bad low and one shitty flush possibility. If a 4 comes giving you the straight then you have to worry about low draws splitting the pot.

Hand 2 - I still like raising pre. Since they call too much, might as play for stacks with your good hands.
Yea, I usually play PLO Hi and Limit Hi/Lo; however, the only real game going was this.

In hand 1 Im not sure if you're talking about PF as I believe I was the BB. I'm wondering the merits of a c/r but the game is so passive that a set may not even bet at that board. Obv when the turn comes I still would like to get value out of the two callers as long as one doesn't have a set and the other doesnt have A4 Im still winning 1/2 money in a 3way pot. Of course I could get quartered but I just believe if someone had the same holdings then they would have raised the flop.

My real fear here is I've slowed down a set from one player and A4, overvalued my hand, and thus am just spewing into the nuts on both end.
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As Ks Jd Ah 172879 318470 181530 0 0 0 0 0.491
Ac 2c 6h 3h 181530 181530 318470 0 271649 0 0 0.509

the hand isn't bad, and it's certainly worth playing. But it's not as premium as you think. Worth a raise in MP3 or better. In fact you wouldn't be far wrong if you never raised UTG.

As for hand 1, it's a BB special. And with a play at high and low at these stakes with shallow stacks you can't fold
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swiggidy
Old 05-08-2007, 08:01 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 sry, missed the BB in hand 1.

I check the turn. First, you're right about villains being too passive to raise sets. Second, they suck at value betting and you may not have to call off your stack to get to showdown.

Hand 2 - so it has 49% equity against one of the best starting hands? Against better opponents I wouldn't value it as much, but against terrible post-flop players who will call pre with anything is it really bad to raise?
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zenbitz
Old 05-08-2007, 10:49 PM #8 (permalink)  
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OP wasn't BB in hand 1, was he?

Hand 2... I would probably just open limp UTG. It's hard to say, because at these stakes you are rarely going to get re-raised. If you get called by a maroon with any A-baby and a low flops or turns, you can only hope to break even. Multiway, you have a better chance of chopping up a 2nd best high-hand (although you will probably need to hit‚
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salsa4ever
Old 05-08-2007, 11:17 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
sry, missed the BB in hand 1.

I check the turn. First, you're right about villains being too passive to raise sets. Second, they suck at value betting and you may not have to call off your stack to get to showdown.

Hand 2 - so it has 49% equity against one of the best starting hands? Against better opponents I wouldn't value it as much, but against terrible post-flop players who will call pre with anything is it really bad to raise?
I'm saying it IS a good hand, but it's not like dominating everything like some people think AAxx might do.

So it has 49% equity against A236ds, but it's playability is crap. Your 49% is fine if you're playing NL and you can shove it preflop. With A236ds you either have a low or a straight or you don't. 47Q with 2 suited and you get it in. AQT and you'd fold (or know you're bluffing). You either have a flush draw or you don't. With AAKJ you're in a reverse implied odds situation with a one pair most of the time (to get your 49% equity you have to see a showdown with one pair a lot of the time). Add your OOP-ness and you can start to sense how you're setting up to win a little and lose a lot.

You've admitted you haven't played PLO8. I encourage you to give it a try, and when you do, you'll find within a couple of hours that position is really, really important and a very good hand in shithouse position is MUCH worse than a decent hand in good position. Another thing you'll learn is that because it's a pot limit game, the relative equity of your starting hands is dwarfed by position because starting hands matter preflop (where the betting must be small), but position matters on the later streets (with big bets). On the same note, playability on later streets is more important than pre flop equity. Also when your AAKK faces a big river bet on a Q45J6 board or even K45J6, you'll realize it really sucks to have to guess whether they have A299, or A239, or A29J, or A345, or even 6789. If you call, you're playing for half the pot, but if you fold, there goes some of that 50% equity.
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