Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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Originally Posted by Evilpopcorn
Concerning the villian with low fold to 3bet. So then best would just be to move some of our standard calling hands into our value range and just have a smaller calling range of the hand that remain?
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yup. if he'll call a 3b wide then we can 3b for value with a weaker range. for example, if someone continues with {AK, QQ+}, then we only have more than 50% equity with KK+. but if someone continues with {AJ+, TT+, KQ+} then we have more than 50% equity with {AQ+, JJ+}. (this ignores pot equity and any postflop advantage/disadvantage and also assumes villain only calls etc)
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Example villina has 3bet% of say 7% and we have the postflop read that he is a one bullet monkey. You raise 22 on the BTN he 3bets to 3x and you are getting 9 to 1 on his stack. Is this now a call ?
Now does this mean that without the read we cannot assume this and have to be pretty tight in our 3bet/call range even if we know he is 3betting a wide range, but we don't have the postlop read.
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with position, we can often widen our calling range because of reads like this, but id avoid it oop. with other reads we can widen a calling range too though.
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Yeah agree about using 4bet sparsingly at 25NL. Still i would like some thought when a 4bet small is good and a 4bet jam?
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its the same as a 3b really, just ranges are alot tighter and easier to work with. like, suppose villain 3bets, if he only 3bets QQ+ and he stacks off with his entire range, why not 4b shove AA? but if he folds QQ,KK to a shove, then its probably better to just call or 4b a bit smaller. deciding our bet size here is mainly about maximizing what we can get and determining how he plays a range is what id give biggest consideration too.
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What i was also trying to get is our cbet in 3bet pot frequency gonna be higher than in normaly 2bet pots ?
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depends what he calls a 3b with and what he'll bet out with and if we bet for value or as a bluff etc.
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So when finding the rare occasion at 25NL where a solid reg is getting out of line with 3betting what sort of hands are we 4betting (2.5x or jam?),and calling the 3bet with? What is our plan for post flop if we 2.5x it and get flatted ?
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well...it depends again. key thing is that 3betting and 4betting are practically the same. everything u consider when 3betting is true for 4betting, its just that 3bet ranges are typically more straight forward. if he 3bs {AQ+, TT+, KQ+} but continues to a 4b with {AK, QQ+} does he fold enough to make a 4b profitable with something like A2s? how does that change if we hold 45s instead? spoonitnow recently made a irc 3b thread which shows some of the ev calculations for this and its in muzzard's thread as well.
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For exmaple say we 3bet 79s out of the BB to a BTN who open 25% of his BTNs and fold to 3bet of only 30%.
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ya, spoon is getting at the fact that we are going to be oop, and that the btn isnt folding enough to make this +ev by itself.
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