Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 863
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Well said Pelion. I have nothing to add to that.
I'll repeat that standard poker logic indicates larger bet here against multiple players on the flop - however....
I'll check in this situation and hope someone else bets for me, then, depending on their bet I'll decide whether to call or raise big. I have a couple reasons for doing this.
First, we're talking about an unraised pot here preflop (we're still talking about that right?) So I have a good idea what types of hands people are playing. My first question is "did one of them hit already?", 2 pair or a set? is there a strong draw (people love flush draws). Now I like making people pay for draws on the turn, not the flop. I'll give a cheap card on the flop (whether I'm betting or doing a come-a-long raise). Also, I prefer doing a check/raise here because if someone hit hard on the flop they will reraise me back and I can fold out of the hand right there. I'm not going to do the betting FOR THE OTHER PERSON in this instance. Finally, I'm always willing to get out of a hand with TPTK. So, before I go betting big (and let's say there are 5 players in the hand on 25NL, counting me, in an unraised pot - that's 1.25 in the pot. Now, if the blinds are in the hand I can almost dismiss their hands as pure junk. So, I'm watching out for the other 2 players first, and if one of the blinds sticks around, then I'm going to be very curious about a lucky hit on the flop - like 2 pair.
So, how much do I bet here? Let's say I'm early - both blinds check (because they are going to fold anyway now). I'm really playing 2 players here, not 4. (again this is an unraised pot) Do I bet $2.50? Who will call that? I don't want to win $1.25. I want to win at least the average pot (which is $5). So, I'll check and hope one of the trailing players gets interested in the pot and bets .75 or so. I'll call and so will the other guy maybe - that makes the pot $4. Now I'm interested AND I have a good idea of where I stand.
So the turn comes and I bet $2.50. If I get called I'm probably good. If the original bettor raises then the flop hit him hard and I'm done. If there's a draw I may bet alot less, like .50. Why? I want them to think I'm on the draw. I'm assuming one of them IS really on the draw if there are alot of preflop callers. And I'm HOPING one of them has TP bad kicker. So I bet .50 hoping for a $2 raise that I can then just call (nailing home the message "I'M ON THE DRAW" AT THE SAME PRICE AS THE 2.50 BET I WAS GOING TO MAKE ANYWAY). The turn is no help (TO THE DRAW) so I check (MAINTINING THE DECEPTION)- he bets again this time bigger (now the pot is getting where I want it to be) and I call him. River is no help (TO THE DRAW). Now 1 of 3 things just happened:
1. He was on the draw and semi-bluffing. Not likely. But if that's the case then he checks or folds no matter what I do.
2. He had me beat on the flop. A possibility, but hey that's poker.
3. I have him. He has Top Pair bad kicker or ANY pair and he has sold out that I'm on the draw and just missed big time.
In all those cases there's one solution. Come out with a big bet. Depending on the betting, at this point the pot is between $5 and $10. So I come out for $10. He either folds (because he was going to fold anyway), Pushes (because he has me smoked) so I fold, OR Calls and I take most his stack.
If I had bet $2 on the flop with my TP then I would have won $1.25 or just been called and had no idea where I stood. By taking decent odds that I AM ahead and will probably Stay ahead OR that I am behind and he will let me know on the turn. Either way I'm betting less on the flop or checking. Then I have either saved money by letting him declare his hand, or make ALOT more money by taking a one beat pause. There is the chance he catches up on the river OR that he has mondo balls and pushes with a weaker hand than TPTK against my $10 bet and gets me to fold. But that is HIGHLY unlikely AND that $10 bet is also what I would do with a set or 2 pair of my own. So, there's no way for him to know and on another hand I can bust him for his whole stack (or someone else) when they try the same thing.
That's my rambling answer.
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