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Yes/No

  
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Muxy
Post Posted: Wed, 25 Jan 2006, 11:22pm    Post subject: Yes/No Reply with quote
Strike 3
Strike 3

Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 1529
WPP: 75
Location: Canadian LOLUH'S AND AMERICAN LOLUHS
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (3 handed) FTR Hand History Converter

Hero ($26.80)
BB ($21.70)
Button ($33.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6Club, AClub.
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, BB calls $0.50.

Flop: ($1.50) KClub, 5Club, 4Spade (2 players)
Hero bets $1, BB raises to $4, Hero raises to $26.05, BB calls $16.95 (All-In).

Turn: ($48.50) TSpade (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($48.50) 8Heart (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $48.50
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Robert
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 4:04am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Full House
Full House

Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 1109
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Location: Kokkedal, Denmark
Its either raise or fold, you are getting terrible odds to call.
You have 9 outs for the flush, and I will only count your ace as 1.5 outs (you dont know if your ace outs are any good) and 0.5 outs for a backdoor straight draw - thats 11 outs in totalt. With a bit of folding equity this play is at least breakeven. I think it all depends on how much folding equity you have (at least I think, I havent done the exact math behind this, I might be wrong)
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Miffed22001
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 4:34am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Straight Flush
Straight Flush

Joined: 21 Jun 2005
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Location: Petra Marklund FTW ^^^^
ok, thats bad.
BB just told you to leave/fold.
Id do exactly that
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Robert
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 4:37am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Full House
Full House

Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 1109
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Location: Kokkedal, Denmark
btw, even though its only 3-handed, you are playing a very vulnerable hand out of position, so I dont really like the prf raise.
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Muxy
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 4:38am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Strike 3
Strike 3

Joined: 10 Apr 2005
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Location: Canadian LOLUH'S AND AMERICAN LOLUHS
Villian had lower flush draw.

Rivered a 8
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gabe
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 5:38am    Post subject: Reply with quote
EAT BUGS
EAT BUGS

Joined: 07 Dec 2004
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if its the type of villian to call allin with a flush draw, its a bad move
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midas06
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 6:10am    Post subject: Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 22 Jun 2005
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Location: NZ
Wouldn't it be a great move if the villain is willing to move all in with just the draw?
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gabe
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 6:54am    Post subject: Reply with quote
EAT BUGS
EAT BUGS

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the type of player that calls with a draw is the type that will call with a king, which you don't usually want.
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Pingviini
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 7:00am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Full House
Full House

Joined: 08 Feb 2005
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gabe wrote:
the type of player that calls with a draw is the type that will call with a king, which you don't usually want.


please elaborate..

Also, how do you (all) feel about just calling his raise on the flop? is money deep enough? I dont mind this play here but I wouldnt make it too often. Also, be willing to play 2 pair/set this way..
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jailhousejoe
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 8:28am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Two Pair
Two Pair

Joined: 29 Sep 2005
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Muxy are you a low-stakes Prahlad Friedman Wink ? Isnt moving all-in on flush-draws and sets alike exactly how he plays? 3 handed I love everything about this play including the pre-flop call. I guess the risk/reward ratio is debatable whether it will pay off over a single hand. Imo its entirely read dependent as to how much fold equity you have here, so not sure it makes sense as a general low-stakes strategy. But even when it gets called like this it will make great advertising if you intend to stick around on the table.
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Les_Worm
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 9:04am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Season II
Season II

Joined: 11 May 2004
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No. Pretty fishy if you ask me. Preflop is fine, fold on the flop after the raise.
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gabe
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 9:35am    Post subject: Reply with quote
EAT BUGS
EAT BUGS

Joined: 07 Dec 2004
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Pingviini wrote:
gabe wrote:
the type of player that calls with a draw is the type that will call with a king, which you don't usually want.


please elaborate..

Also, how do you (all) feel about just calling his raise on the flop? is money deep enough? I dont mind this play here but I wouldnt make it too often. Also, be willing to play 2 pair/set this way..

1 overcard and a flushdraw is an underdog to a pair of kings, right? we don't want him calling with a pair of kings, we want him to fold alot. if he is a fish, he will call and we will have to suckout to win the pot. a fish will call allin on a flushdraw, so i would assume he is a fish. you can't push draws against fish.
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zenbitz
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 11:40am    Post subject: Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
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You are getting 5:1 implied odds with NFD, 1 over card. That's probably not quite good enough, unless you think you can take it away from TP on the turn if you miss. If you hit, you might have trouble extracting as well.

As for wanting to push against a caller who will call with nNFD and TPNK...
Assume he plays any K, and and 2 clubs.

By the flop, there are 132 hands he could have with a K and only 72 hands he can have with a (worse) Flush draw.

You win 43% vs. Kd3c (pretty much the worst non AK/ non TP / no set hand)
You win 47% vs KX
You win 30% vs AKs (no clubs)
You win 80% vs 9cTc

Call it avg. 45% equity vs KX, 80% vs 2 lower clubs.

132*.45 + 72 *.8 / 204 = 59.4 + 57.6 / 204 = 57% equity.

gabe is wrong, you should push against this player. Maybe not if he will call a push with a 4 or 5 and no draw.
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dsaxton
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 12:17pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
4-of-a-Kind

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What are you asking exactly? Is it good to semi-bluff all-in against a completely random opponent (you gave no information on this player) who is showing strength?
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zenbitz
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 12:23pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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No dsax - we drifted away from your opponent before this hand to a mythical opponent (OK, this guy but not until we see that he called with a bad flush draw) who calls a/i with any 2 clubs or any K.
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gabe
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 12:45pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
EAT BUGS
EAT BUGS

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Location: trying to live
zenbitz wrote:
No dsax - we drifted away from your opponent before this hand to a mythical opponent (OK, this guy but not until we see that he called with a bad flush draw) who calls a/i with any 2 clubs or any K.

i didn't mean if the king and the flush draw were in his range, i meant that if he is loose enough to call with a flush draw, he's not folding a king. the reason you push draws is you expect your opponent to be weak/tight enough to fold top pair most of the time.
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zenbitz
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 1:32pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Hmmm.... I guess what you are saying is that even if it's +EV to push here, it might not be maximally +EV.
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DaNutsInYoEye
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 1:42pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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It's not a semi-bluff if your opponent isn't the type that will fold. It's called push-and-pray.
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dsaxton
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 7:26pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
4-of-a-Kind

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zenbitz wrote:
No dsax - we drifted away from your opponent before this hand to a mythical opponent (OK, this guy but not until we see that he called with a bad flush draw) who calls a/i with any 2 clubs or any K.


I was referring to the original post. I think the play can really only be evaluated in terms of his opponents willingness to fold hands. Without any information about this, there's really no meaningful answer.
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gabe
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Jan 2006, 8:37pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
EAT BUGS
EAT BUGS

Joined: 07 Dec 2004
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dsaxton wrote:
zenbitz wrote:
No dsax - we drifted away from your opponent before this hand to a mythical opponent (OK, this guy but not until we see that he called with a bad flush draw) who calls a/i with any 2 clubs or any K.


I was referring to the original post. I think the play can really only be evaluated in terms of his opponents willingness to fold hands. Without any information about this, there's really no meaningful answer.
agree
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Miffed22001
Post Posted: Fri, 27 Jan 2006, 8:54am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Straight Flush
Straight Flush

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Quote:

It's not a semi-bluff if your opponent isn't the type that will fold. It's called push-and-pray.


Its a call/fold. He told u to go away and i think hes calling if you push.
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UG
Post Posted: Fri, 27 Jan 2006, 10:56am    Post subject: Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
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DaNutsInYoEye wrote:
It's not a semi-bluff if your opponent isn't the type that will fold. It's called push-and-pray.


Quoted for truth.

It took me twice to learn my lesson on this. You're probably going to need to suckout here to win.
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