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Posted: Thu, 16 Sep 2004, 1:04pm Post subject: Tough hand in MTT Hmmm?
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Full House
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 629
WPP: 149
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CARDSON
Game #591485927 - Tournament Coral - 100/200 No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2004/09/15-21:19:15 (CST)
Table "Coral 35" (MTT) -- Seat 10 is the button
Seat 1: quiturdayjob (11,083 in chips)
Seat 2: longcast (5,295 in chips)
Seat 3: Diz11 (2,800 in chips)
Seat 4: backhurts (2,715 in chips)
Seat 5: scgolfer (7,457 in chips)
Seat 6: Mickey T (3,735 in chips)
Seat 7: pinehill (2,335 in chips)
Seat 8: redrocklake (3,055 in chips)
Seat 9: JusChilln (4,430 in chips)
Seat 10: dw martini (6,755 in chips)
longcast: Ante (25)
Diz11 : Ante (25)
backhurts: Ante (25)
scgolfer: Ante (25)
Mickey T: Ante (25)
pinehill: Ante (25)
redrocklake: Ante (25)
JusChilln: Ante (25)
dw martini: Ante (25)
quiturdayjob: Ante (25)
quiturdayjob: Post Small Blind (100)
longcast: Post Big Blind (200)
Dealing...
Dealt to scgolfer [ As ]
Dealt to scgolfer [ Ks ]
Diz11 : Fold
backhurts: Fold
scgolfer: Raise (1,000)
Mickey T: Fold
pinehill: Call (1,000)
redrocklake: Fold
JusChilln: Fold
dw martini: Fold
quiturdayjob: Fold
longcast: Raise (1,600)
scgolfer: Call (800)
pinehill: Raise All-in (1,310)
longcast: Call (510)
scgolfer: Call (510)
*** FLOP *** : [ 9s 7s 2h ]
longcast: Bet (2,960)
FOLD OR ALL IN W/ NUT FLUSH DRAW? |
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Posted: Thu, 16 Sep 2004, 1:21pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17644
WPP: 82
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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Flush Draw + 2 overs with a ton of chips in the pot.
Let it ride. |
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Posted: Thu, 16 Sep 2004, 1:27pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 755
WPP: 140
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| Sink or swim! If you catch you crush anything he can have. |
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Posted: Thu, 16 Sep 2004, 1:29pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 1887
WPP: 103
Location: Kansas City
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Where are you at in the tourney? How many people started? how many left? How many places paid?
With blinds and stacks as they are, I'd suspect you are pretty far from the money.
Some would fold, some would call. I'm leaning more toward calling. Ff you win, just think how big your stack would be. It makes my mouth water.
I'm thinking you may be up against trips or an overpair. Otherwise, he's bluffing into a dry pot. |
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Posted: Thu, 16 Sep 2004, 1:34pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 629
WPP: 149
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| Im above average stack(about 40th), 750 people started, about 200 left. 70 paid I think. |
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Posted: Thu, 16 Sep 2004, 2:15pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 1405
WPP: 94
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| scgolfer wrote: | | Im above average stack(about 40th), 750 people started, about 200 left. 70 paid I think. |
a definite call. even it were to go bad, with your stack size relative to the blinds, you could make a recovery.
he didn't try to isolate you preflop, so i wouldn't put him on AA or KK. maybe another AK. |
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Posted: Thu, 16 Sep 2004, 2:20pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 125
WPP: 46
Location: Corona California
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| call it.....like someone said earlier, nut flush draw plus two over's(way over's), he's in the BB, so, he could pretty much have anything (trips, 2 pair, straight draw)...all of which, i believe would work in u'r favor once a spade hits. |
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Posted: Thu, 16 Sep 2004, 2:28pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 1887
WPP: 103
Location: Kansas City
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| EddieBoy wrote: | | he's in the BB, so, he could pretty much have anything | I think you can rule out ANYTHING after so much pre-flop action. |
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Posted: Thu, 16 Sep 2004, 2:28pm Post subject:
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Two Pair
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 32
WPP: 80
Location: Thomasville, NC
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| EddieBoy wrote: | | call it.....like someone said earlier, nut flush draw plus two over's(way over's), he's in the BB, so, he could pretty much have anything (trips, 2 pair, straight draw)...all of which, i believe would work in u'r favor once a spade hits. |
I agree....With your stack, and what you would have left even if you missed your draw, you'd be fine to recover and make it back with solid play.
This to me would be a click on "Call" faster than my hands could move 
How'd it turn out?
Billy |
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Posted: Thu, 16 Sep 2004, 2:41pm Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 16
WPP: 116
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I think our Hero should consider going all-in on the flop immediately, instead of checkraising. I have been thinking about this for the past hour, and I can't seem to come to a conclusion wether I would check call all in, or just put them all in immeditaely.
Seems like it is worth considering.
I would definitely call the bet the way the hand was played. |
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Posted: Thu, 16 Sep 2004, 3:05pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 1887
WPP: 103
Location: Kansas City
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| Flatbush wrote: | | I think our Hero should consider going all-in on the flop immediately, instead of checkraising. | Our hero is golfer. (You're my hero, golfer) and he didn't check the flop. The other person went all in immediatly. Golfers only choice is to call or fold.
I'm surprised how many people are saying to call. Though that's my advice as well, I expected at least 1 or 2 to consider folding.
I'll play devils advocate, just to give both sides a voice.
You are on a draw, and the pot is already 3 way. Both you opponents limp-raise or call-raised pre-flop. It looks certain that longcast made his all-in decision based on the flop. He chose to call pre-flop and stopped pushing. I'm thinking it's obvious that he had a good hand pre-flop that turned into a great hand post flop.
I'm really fearing trips or an overpair. Against trips you are still a dog if the board pairs. You have outs, but your opponent has outs against your flush. It is on this board that I notice cards like 2s coming down. Completes your flush and gives your opponent a full house.
With blinds at 100 / 200 you are short-stacked if you lose. And you are giving someone at your table a huge chip advantage. Even with the money you have already put in you can fold and keep a stack of about 5,000 in chips. This is plenty to survive and push others around. |
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Posted: Thu, 16 Sep 2004, 3:34pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 629
WPP: 149
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CARDSON
scgolfer: Call (2,960)
*** TURN *** : [ 9s 7s 2h ] [ Qd ]
*** RIVER *** : [ 9s 7s 2h Qd ] [ 4c ]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 7,280 | Side pot 1: 5,920 | Board: [ 9s 7s 2h Qd 4c ]
quiturdayjob lost 125 (folded)
longcast bet 5,295, collected 13,200, net +7,905 (showed hand) [ Qh Qc ] (three of a kind, queens)
Diz11 lost 25 (folded)
backhurts lost 25 (folded)
scgolfer lost 5,295 (showed hand) [ As Ks ] (high card ace)
Mickey T lost 25 (folded)
pinehill lost 2,335 (showed hand) [ Ah Jh ] (high card ace)
redrocklake lost 25 (folded)
JusChilln lost 25 (folded)
dw martini lost 25 (folded)
My thinking was, huge pot, lots of outs, many to the nuts, and win this hand and I could cruise to the money with a higher objective of winning or final table. You have to take risks like this to win. Played it right but lost.  Ended up getting blinded out with no good hands until all in with pocket 6's. |
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Posted: Thu, 16 Sep 2004, 3:44pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 794
WPP: 208
Location: Los Angeles
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| You have about 15 outs (not including other players aces/kings), so about 13-15 outs, pot committed... Call it |
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Posted: Fri, 17 Sep 2004, 7:04am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Posts: 1522
WPP: 82
Location: England UK
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you was actually the favourite on the flop so it was the right thing to do. you could argue with it being an MTT opposed to a cash game a fold is better. It would depend on your skill level compared to everyone else and the chances of you making deep money calling vs folding.
| Code: |
Holdem Hi: 903 enumerated boards containing 9s 7s 2h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qc Qh 387 42.86 516 57.14 0 0.00 0.429
As Ks 467 51.72 436 48.28 0 0.00 0.517
Ah Jh 49 5.43 854 94.57 0 0.00 0.054 | |
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Posted: Fri, 17 Sep 2004, 5:45pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 1887
WPP: 103
Location: Kansas City
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| allLiving wrote: | | You have about 15 outs (not including other players aces/kings), so about 13-15 outs, pot committed... Call it |
Don't think pot commited in tournaments. You are never pot commited.
If you think you are beat, get out while you still have some chips. One of the big rules in tournaments, "When you're out, you're done." No rebuys like in ring games. It's better to fold a hand and have 5 chips left, than to call when you know you are beat. |
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Posted: Fri, 17 Sep 2004, 10:20pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 1720
WPP: 297
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
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You've put 3,900 in preflop and then hit a great flop that gives you outs no matter what they have. Its pretty obvious Longcast has a high pocket pair. Hope its lower than kings and make the easy call.
And Humph, that's true at the river if you know you're beat. At the flop, with a great draw to the nuts and probably 2 overs, you should be considering all the chips you put in already and the pot size. If everyone limped in here, sure, fold it and wait for a better hand. But that's not the case here. Obviously he's beat at the flop, but he has good odds to win the hand, and I think he has to call it. |
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Posted: Fri, 17 Sep 2004, 11:28pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 1887
WPP: 103
Location: Kansas City
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| michael1123 wrote: | | And Humph, that's true at the river if you know you're beat. At the flop, with a great draw to the nuts and probably 2 overs, you should be considering all the chips you put in already and the pot size. | Sorry, in this situation I am in 100% call mode.
I was speaking in general. If you are on the river, and you know you are beat, fold. Just as you said. I was adressing alliving's statement as a general statement about being pot comitted. I say there is no such this as pot commited in tournament. |
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Posted: Sat, 18 Sep 2004, 12:26am Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 18
WPP: 47
Location: Georgia
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| Quote: | | you was actually the favourite on the flop so it was the right thing to do. |
he was the favorite with the other guy holding a pair? |
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Posted: Sat, 18 Sep 2004, 3:34am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Posts: 1522
WPP: 82
Location: England UK
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| Toasty wrote: |
| Code: |
Holdem Hi: 903 enumerated boards containing 9s 7s 2h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qc Qh 387 42.86 516 57.14 0 0.00 0.429
As Ks 467 51.72 436 48.28 0 0.00 0.517
Ah Jh 49 5.43 854 94.57 0 0.00 0.054 | | |
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Posted: Sat, 18 Sep 2004, 3:58am Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 18
WPP: 47
Location: Georgia
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| ehhhh...pair should ALWAYS be favored in that spot in my opinion. |
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Posted: Sat, 18 Sep 2004, 6:17am Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 18
WPP: 47
Location: Georgia
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| I dont wanna sound noobish, but seriously, the pair is already made, the ak youre on a draw, good odds, but still a draw, I just dont see it possible. Granted if you hit the draw you win...but the other is still already made. |
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Posted: Sat, 18 Sep 2004, 9:55am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 1887
WPP: 103
Location: Kansas City
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| thenextbigthing wrote: | | I dont wanna sound noobish, but seriously, the pair is already made, the ak youre on a draw, good odds, but still a draw, I just dont see it possible. Granted if you hit the draw you win...but the other is still already made. | But you have to remember that favorite says who will win at the end, not who is ahead. Both players are trying to catch cards. golfer is loking for a K, A or  and longcast is looking for the other cards.
Run this hand 100 times, golfer will win more than 50 and that makes him a favorite. |
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