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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 5:42pm Post subject: AJ flop 2pr oop vs reg
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Flush
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 346
WPP: 151
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Opp is a regular 25/22, aggression 5.8
so far double barrels 57% as somewhat expected.
his range is obv wide in late position.
I think the way to play this hand here is to either CR turn, or play it like I did and lead the river as he's probably checking back hands like AK/A10 etc ..
when he shoves here do you *always* put him on QQ or K10 ? how often do you think a player like this would bluff shove the river thinking i was weak on this river lead?
$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG esp1ka ($161.35)
CO InescapableD ($202.55)
BTN lolol you lose ($200.00)
SB 1strounder ($82.80)
BB Hero ($307.75)
Pre-flop: ($3, 5 players) Hero is BB  
2 folds, lolol you lose raises to $7, 1 fold, Hero calls $5
Flop:    ($15, 2 players)
Hero checks, lolol you lose bets $11, Hero calls $11
Turn:  ($37, 2 players)
Hero checks, lolol you lose bets $28, Hero calls $28
River:  ($93, 2 players)
Hero bets $48, lolol you lose raises to $154, Hero folds
Final Pot: $295
lolol you lose wins $292 ( won +$92 )
Hero lost -$94.00 |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 6:54pm Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 22
WPP: 89
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| I checkraise the flop, if he has 1-3nut he goes over the top, then I fold. Remember, if he's got it, HE'S the one playing YOU. |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 9:58pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 753
WPP: 115
Location: Santa Cruz
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| check/call the river, especially if hes capable of bluffing. There is no point in reopening the betting. Check/call also allows him to bluff bricked flush draws. |
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Posted: Sat, 06 Sep 2008, 11:21pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 979
WPP: 64
Location: bluffing scare cards
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| thizzSantaCruz wrote: | | check/call the river, especially if hes capable of bluffing. There is no point in reopening the betting. Check/call also allows him to bluff bricked flush draws. |
Your lead doesn't accomplish anything imo. |
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Posted: Sat, 06 Sep 2008, 11:28pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 4914
WPP: 81
Location: Pwnsylvania
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| ib3x wrote: | | I checkraise the flop, if he has 1-3nut he goes over the top, then I fold. Remember, if he's got it, HE'S the one playing YOU. |
yay let's start folding very strong hands against players with wide LP ranges!
I c/r the flop and pay off $200 in credit-card debt when he 3bets it |
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Posted: Sat, 06 Sep 2008, 11:42pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17644
WPP: 82
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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Posted: Sat, 06 Sep 2008, 11:48pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 1706
WPP: 149
Location: Kansas
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I don't get your line at all. c/c, c/c, bet then......fold?
flop is fine if we check-bomb the turn.
if you c/c the turn, c/c or check-bomb the river please.
p.s. I'm not folding this ever against opp as described. If he's got the nuts, I'm paying the man. |
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Posted: Sat, 06 Sep 2008, 11:50pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 1706
WPP: 149
Location: Kansas
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| Fnord wrote: | | I like every street. |
c'mon, as played at least check-calling the river has to be better?
EDIT: I mean, our bet on the river pretty much says "hey I like my hand and I don't want you to shove over me" but that's exactly what he did. |
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Posted: Sat, 06 Sep 2008, 11:56pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17644
WPP: 82
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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| UG wrote: | c'mon, as played at least check-calling the river has to be better?
EDIT: I mean, our bet on the river pretty much says "hey I like my hand and I don't want you to shove over me" but that's exactly what he did. |
c/c has merit.
Sure, he's aggro on the cheap streets, however most of these guys are huge pussies for big money on the river.
What's his % steal and how does he play in those spots?
If you think he's a total spewtard then just look him up on the river. |
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Posted: Sun, 07 Sep 2008, 12:31am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 4914
WPP: 81
Location: Pwnsylvania
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if I c/c the turn I'm donking the river
seriously though, I can understand on a different board texture, but how am I the only one for c/r'ing the flop? |
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Posted: Sun, 07 Sep 2008, 12:35am Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17644
WPP: 82
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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| bigspenda73 wrote: | | how am I the only one for c/r'ing the flop? |
The more money behind, the more I hate anything less than top 2 on this board. So many hands people play have us crushed. Reads help a lot and certainly there are opponents I will feel good about getting this in against.
If you care about balance, then bluff this flop with air as a level. I run bluffs in spots where the poker police say I shouldn't bluff all the time against players who I think are ABC and fold too much. |
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Posted: Sun, 07 Sep 2008, 12:43am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 4914
WPP: 81
Location: Pwnsylvania
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Oh I lead the flop sometimes toooo
I just think he'll spew all over us if we c/r the flop |
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Posted: Sun, 07 Sep 2008, 12:47am Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17644
WPP: 82
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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| bigspenda73 wrote: | | Oh I lead the flop sometimes toooo |
I think this is a pretty big mistake when you're going to get c-bet into almost always. |
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Posted: Sun, 07 Sep 2008, 1:00am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 4914
WPP: 81
Location: Pwnsylvania
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Posted: Sun, 07 Sep 2008, 1:04am Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17644
WPP: 82
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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| bigspenda73 wrote: | | so c/c flop donk turn? |
Meh, that line is so unbalanced. Yeah, after thinking some more donking the flop gives a turn lead a wider range that includes some very strong hands. Is that better than letting him fire the flop with hands that are drawing nearly dead?
I just don't think we have a big pot hand here given how little money went in pre-flop. |
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Posted: Sun, 07 Sep 2008, 2:03am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 1706
WPP: 149
Location: Kansas
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| Fnord wrote: | | UG wrote: | c'mon, as played at least check-calling the river has to be better?
EDIT: I mean, our bet on the river pretty much says "hey I like my hand and I don't want you to shove over me" but that's exactly what he did. |
c/c has merit.
Sure, he's aggro on the cheap streets, however most of these guys are huge pussies for big money on the river. |
I don't know about you, Fnord, but if I see a guy donk-bet half-pot into me on this river after check-calling two streets, I am going to raise the freaking roof a lot of times because a) I think he's FOS and b) he's trying to protect a marginal hand.
I think hero got played here to the max. |
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Posted: Sun, 07 Sep 2008, 3:12am Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17644
WPP: 82
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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| UG wrote: | | I don't know about you, Fnord, but if I see a guy donk-bet half-pot into me on this river after check-calling two streets, I am going to raise the freaking roof a lot of times because a) I think he's FOS and b) he's trying to protect a marginal hand. |
Not many people can follow through on that in the heat of the moment. If you did it to me, I'd tip my hat and tell ya nice hand. Then I'd run a similar line with a stronger hand. |
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Posted: Sun, 07 Sep 2008, 11:52am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 4914
WPP: 81
Location: Pwnsylvania
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| that's just it, aren't we literally at the top of our range here? |
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Posted: Sun, 07 Sep 2008, 1:32pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 346
WPP: 151
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thanks for the huge discussion, really appreciate it.
now one thing i'm finding is that all of you are making your plays based on what YOUR image is, not mine. so I missed some information in my original post.
I am the kind of guy (at least now still) that if I am CR this flop cbet, i am *never* doing it with a hand that isn't at least 45% to win this, ie big combo draws, 2pr/set etc etc here. I'm not even CR this flop with as weak as AK here. dont see the point.
so given that my opp could know this on how I play, I didnt like the CR. I chose the c/c twice line and lead river as I hoped to get paid by his AK/QJ/A10 type hands but after thinking some time about it I hate the fact that he really could bluff-shove this river line.
so i'm still not sure what's best here for my style of play against him. Perhaps the turn CR or otherwise c/c the river... he's prob the type of guy that triple barrels this hand with AK type hands. |
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