Table selection

Well I've never really payed much attention to it given the lack of volumn during my playtimes but have started to make a little bit of an effort recently and know I need to get some actual ideas on what I need to be looking for.

My current selection criteria is to just open up the 4 tables with most % players per flop with all players having reasonable stack sizes (eg $25-40+ on 1/2) and at least 4 players on the table not sitting out.

I don't really go and look through PT for the players on the tables and see if they are worth playing against, and I haven't really got into colour-coding players (ala Stox etc) so I know I'm not optimizing my choices but I'm not sure how to do it in a quick fashion.

Is there something else I should be looking at/for, are their tools out there that will look at players on the tables and compare them against my database to tell me the best tables etc...or do I just keep doing what I'm doing?

I guess this could actually be a question that could be asked for lhe, plo, nl, sng, etc so feel free to move it if need be...just placed in here since it's my current game.

You should take notes on players and then try to join the tables with more notes.
Having notes on their play, along with their stats, is really useful and ups your winrate

Ideally you want loose passive players immediately to your right and the tighties to your left.

I always look for a seat that looks something like:

-nit-nit-HERO-fish-fish-

or

-nit-nit-HERO-maniac-fish

basically, you want immediate position on whoever is likely to be losing the most money at the table, while having tight-passives acting immediately behind you makes your descisions whilst out-of position much easier.

Yeah it makes a big difference. You want the fishies sitting behind you for sure.

Actually, during double FPP week on Stars I wasn't finding any good tables so I tried just sitting down at an empty one and seeing who showed up.

If I liked the table, I stayed, if not, I left. It seemed to work pretty well and works ok the times I tried it since double FPP week as well. My theory is that the fish like to join tables that are already running since it never occurs to them to join a waiting list at a good table - especially since they usually don't even know what a good table is.

good tips.

Knyt, when i was playing FR, i would note players according to PT style first. my note box looked like this:
____________________________________________________
lpp...

limps big pp's...folds to c/r's...calls down 2nd pair...

___________________________________________________

when i saw notes already on a table, i would sit down so no one could take my seat, and start looking at notes. if i liked my seat, i stuck around. if i didnt, i left. you should be leaving after 20 hands, if you dont like your table anyway.

it just made it easy to look for the abbreviations first simply to scan for the loosies and tighties and make sure they are in the right spots for me.

another thing: its not such a bad thing to have a maniac on your left. they are hellaciously easy to c/r once they thin the field on themselves.

what to do when the WHOLE table is loose/passive? you cant isolate. you cant protect hands. you dont hit hard enough, often enough, to beat the school.

do we leave a 6max table with two 40/6/.8's on our right, and two 60/4/.5's to our left? or do we bet for very thin value, never bluff, and just realize its profitable...but high variance?

thats kind of what i was after. the tables can get so loose/passive that you almost need help to bust them. they can be had, but its much harder when doing it alone.

i like the idea of recruiting a TAGgy friend to sit down, too. i'm not too concerned about splitting up the fish's money because it leaks out rather slowly in LHE anyway. its not like we can quadruple up in one hand...lol.

btw, how much higher do your hand requirements jump? TP seems to get drawn out on quite a bit 4 handed. i assume, if you cant thin the field off, you are looking to pair your kicker. do we start to include more of a FR range pre by including some more sc's/gappers, and kind of devalue our offsuited broadways? and, at some point (turn?), you are looking to back off and take free showdowns in pos, and check turn/bet safe river when checked behind oop?

i dont like the fact that 4handed flops/turns make me more passive, avoiding spew. it makes me feel like i am starting to play "their game" not me playing mine.

TP becomes a monster against 4 donks. I'd vbet QT on Q high board on river and expect to get called by worse, especially if its multiway.

jeff...when we vb QT on Qhi boards, do you c/c down when the A spikes? or do you generally suspect it just hit someone, cause i tend to. or, do you keep the gas on until they raise knowing they will continue to call down with 55?

Ltrain...its hard to find tighties at my level recently. when possible, i arrange things that way. i look for TAGs to fold off blinds or 3bet me with "ok" stuff after they pick up that i am stealing 40% of them. i tend to 3bet/donk flops against habitual stealers myself. i love that line.

obviously, hand requirements change to what we blast away with, but do we start waiting for safe turns more frequently? isnt that just giving the dead money a chance to suckout on you? i understand it keeps pots small, but on dry boards, you have the advantage, and on wet boards, you know they will pay to chase. so, why give off anything for free and keep pots small when we are paying nasty rakes anyway?

wouldnt it make more sense to take the philosophy of "i play bigger pots better than they do, so make most pots big?" which i'm pretty sure is why jeff is saying to raise KJo anyway in multiway pots.

Specific examples would be more helpful for some of your questions, but for general help, reread SSHE's table on preflop guidelines and the chapter on flop play (SSHE is absolutely the bible in these games). In very loose games, mathematics and pot odds become more important than playing the player since you are usually fighting a school of fish, not just one.

To follow on my example, let's say in that flop, there are 6 people in the pot and I raised it. If I check call, I still likely have the best hand and will have the equity for the call, if I bet, all possible draws still likely have odds to call and you are encouraging their loose play. If I wait to the turn, they are still likely calling my bet (or raise), but this time without the odds to call as the bet size doubles, and second pair hands will also call you not expecting you to have the king. You still have the opportunity to build a big pot, but this time with the odds in your favor.

when the table is full of very loose players I like to be sat either to the immediate right, or the immediate left of the most aggressive one, whether it be in terms of PFR or AF.

To your right - you may find it easier to isolate by 3-betting
To your left - you will get paid off BIG when you are able to trap the entire field with a checkraise on the turn/river.

Failng that, I like to have the most passive player to my left because position isn't really an issue when your villain isn't actually exploiting his positional advantage. For example, most "fish" will still bet a very wide range if you c-bet the flop and then check the turn putting you in a tough spot, but there will be the occasional one who will only bet with a strong made hand.

my problems with these guys on my immediate left begin with them calling two cold habitually. that starts the momentum for the rest of the field to play pf for two bets, and no one folds when someone throws in the 3rd. makes it hard to raise KJo in a 6max game from utg when these guys are calling with both KQ and AXs. if it wont thin out pf, why do we stay aggressive? or, should we just start dumping more flops that dont hit us?

^^^
Sound advice.

If you have 3 or more opponents and at least two are never folding the flop for one more bet, you should be betting only with a good pair or good draw and otherwise playing pretty much fit or fold.

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