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Posted: Sat, 28 Jun 2008, 9:02am Post subject: 3/6: TPTK 200BB deep HU |
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 571
WPP: 109
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This is a deep stack HU table. We have played for 5 minutes and villain has raised every hand from the button and 3-bet 3 times from the BB, so he seems good/aggro. I have also raised every hand from the button and 3-bet him a couple of times.
In one hand I called his 3-bet with JT and raised his cbet on a Qh4s5s board (with air). He called and we checked it down. He had AQ and took it down, so he didn't value bet TPTK on the river after I raised flop and checked behind turn. He probably thought I was on a draw and missed, so he decided a c/c was best, and i think it probably was too against my range. Then he was OOP, now he is IP.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (2 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Hero ($1134)
Button ($2479)
Preflop: Hero is BB with J , A .
Button raises to $18, Hero raises to $65, Button calls $47.
Flop: ($130) 8, 6 , J (2 players)
Hero bets $116, Button calls $116.
Turn: ($362) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $333, Hero...?
So I checked the turn, now what? If I call, I will have $620 left and pot will be $1028. |
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Posted: Sat, 28 Jun 2008, 9:19am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2514
WPP: 92
Location: Arlington, VA
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| Seems like an obvious shove. |
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Posted: Sat, 28 Jun 2008, 5:10pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 1948
WPP: 55
Location: Dizzy
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definitely jam- i would strongly consider calling preflop
if u think jamming is bad then id say check the flop but im pretty sure its not |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Jun 2008, 12:50am Post subject: |
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 571
WPP: 109
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My thinking is that wouldn't he pot control the turn with a weaker Jack? I certainly would.
If so, then his range consists of air (QT, KQ, T9 etc.), draws (67, 78, 6c7c, XcYc) and strong hands (sets, two pair, KK/AA). I would almost always take his line with the strongest hands in my range, because of the dry flop.
Here I decided to c/c turn and c/c river, and my thinking was that shoving the turn will only make him fold his air/bad draws and call with everything else, since I'm giving him 3:1.
Does he bluff his air/missed draws on the river? If he doesn't, then again shoving the turn is better. If he doesn't pot control top pair, then shoving is also clearly correct, but the fact that he bets close to full pot just makes me think that he is either bluffing or wants to build a big pot...
Preflop is also interesting. I know it's not easy to play AJo OOP in a 3-bet pot deep, but I want to keep my level of aggression high to induce mistakes from my opponent. |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Jun 2008, 1:16am Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 251
WPP: 262
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| when you are deep, preflop high cards go down in value and sc and stuff go up but you probably know that. AJ I usually just call because of spots like that that will suck. As played, shove. |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Jun 2008, 1:39am Post subject: |
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 571
WPP: 109
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| The Odds God wrote: | | when you are deep, preflop high cards go down in value and sc and stuff go up but you probably know that. AJ I usually just call because of spots like that that will suck. As played, shove. |
Deep stacks do change the value of your hands, but even more than that it raises the value of position and aggression. 3-betting negates much of that advantage and gives me the lead. I 3-bet AJo here because I want to keep my 3-betting frequency high vs. someone who is raising every hand from the button and folding to my 3-bets most of the time. |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Jun 2008, 3:33am Post subject: |
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HABITUAL LINE-STEPPER
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 5184
WPP: 73
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
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seems like a pretty bad preflop reraise
i have no idea what you are supposed to do now, but its shove or call, i can't imagine folding to just one bet here. |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Jun 2008, 3:35am Post subject: |
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HABITUAL LINE-STEPPER
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 5184
WPP: 73
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
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| pocketfours wrote: | | Deep stacks do change the value of your hands, but even more than that it raises the value of position and aggression. 3-betting negates much of that advantage and gives me the lead. I 3-bet AJo here because I want to keep my 3-betting frequency high vs. someone who is raising every hand from the button and folding to my 3-bets most of the time. |
meh you can still 3-bet a lot, just do it with hands like small pairs and suited connectors, and just hands that can easily bet-fold flops in general. With AJo you really have no flops that you are comfortable with. |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Jun 2008, 4:49am Post subject: |
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 571
WPP: 109
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| Renton wrote: | | pocketfours wrote: | | Deep stacks do change the value of your hands, but even more than that it raises the value of position and aggression. 3-betting negates much of that advantage and gives me the lead. I 3-bet AJo here because I want to keep my 3-betting frequency high vs. someone who is raising every hand from the button and folding to my 3-bets most of the time. |
meh you can still 3-bet a lot, just do it with hands like small pairs and suited connectors, and just hands that can easily bet-fold flops in general. With AJo you really have no flops that you are comfortable with. |
I 3-bet those hands as well. Doesn't sound like you're in a HU mindset here Renton? This isn't your average nitty game either. Villain is raising every single button and AJo dominates a big part of villains 3-bet calling range and is very rarely dominated itself, since AK will almost always 4-bet, and AQ is just a tiny part of villains calling range (unless he always 4-bets that as well).
AJo is a monster in this kind of game, and I'm certainly not planning on folding it when I hit TPTK. I just want to find my best line against his range and optimal bet sizing. AJo is very difficult to play in a 2-bet pot OOP as well because of reverse IO, since I won't be able to protect my top pair type hands without the risk of commiting myself. |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Jun 2008, 6:49am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 1948
WPP: 55
Location: Dizzy
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yea ur 3bet isnt bad at all its just a choice
i think we have concluded ur turn check is the mistake from what u say in ur previous posts |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Jun 2008, 6:58am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1816
WPP: 101
Location: Toronto'ish
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| pocketfours wrote: | My thinking is that wouldn't he pot control the turn with a weaker Jack? I certainly would.
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I must admit, it does seem odd that he'd be betting here. I would imagine he'd check behind with 78,67,98 etc here since they all got more outs on the turn, as well as JT and QJ.
That being said, the only hands you think he should be betting here then are like 79 and 56 or something, and all sets he chose not to raise flop. What was his flop raising frequency?
Also you don't seem to want to get it in on this board, so why the nearly pot size bet on the flop? |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Jun 2008, 8:45am Post subject: |
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 571
WPP: 109
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| sauce123 wrote: | yea ur 3bet isnt bad at all its just a choice
i think we have concluded ur turn check is the mistake from what u say in ur previous posts |
I'm not sure the turn check was a mistake against this guy, but it shouldn't be the standard play in this spot. I think I should have shoved instead of calling though because villain seemed commited.
The results are pretty interesting. I called the turn and check/called a shove for $620 on the river (which was 2d). Villain shows J9o. I'm pretty surprised by his play, I really wasn't expecting him to show up with a weak jack here. |
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