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Posted: Thu, 26 Jun 2008, 9:15pm Post subject: AA deep, vs fish - 2/5 pounds |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1647
WPP: 100
Location: Toronto'ish
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-SB is a huuuuge fish who has no fold button. I've had a few hands with him. One hand I bet AT on turn, and hit A river and c/r'd from 60 to 240 on river and he called with only JJ
-he doesn't distinguish bet sizing, so a huge bet and a smaller bet seem to get called with the same frequency
-UTG is a meh player. he's generally pretty tight, 18/8/4, but seems to be playing around 30% of hands today (maybe to play more hands with mega fish)
-UTG is an ass, and him and I were fighting in chat cause I was telling him to shutup and mind his own business while he was insulting the fish and calling him so bad and basically saying everything you shouldn't say to a fish. Not sure how that would influence someone's play against someone
-SB hasn't donked out much yet that I've seen, but pretty much always bets if you ever checked to him when he had position
CryptoLogic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$5
5 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $1100
CO: $469
Hero: $1372.15
SB: $1249.35
BB: $857.50
Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with  
UTG calls, CO folds, Hero raises to $25, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.
Flop:    ($80, 3 players)
SB bets $70, UTG calls, Hero ? |
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Posted: Thu, 26 Jun 2008, 9:37pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 671
WPP: 117
Location: Santa Cruz
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I'm not qualified at all to comment but if this was at my stakes I would definantly raise the flop. There are a ton of scare cards that can come on the turn and the Donkey could be leading with a pair or a draw here. I doubt he has you beat due to the number of uuuuus you put in huge fish. UTG can call with a wide range here for implied odds. The fish is obviously a huge station based on his JJ call and UTG can expect to get a good amount of value if he hits.
I think if you raise and get 3 bet in this situation you need to fold. If SB calls I would fold a diamond if lead into and check behind a blank. If UTG calls in any situation I would proceed with caution. |
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Posted: Thu, 26 Jun 2008, 9:56pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2494
WPP: 93
Location: Arlington, VA
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| I think you should definitely raise and try to win a big pot against the fish. You're almost guaranteed to have both players beat, (the fish could be betting any pair, and would probably slow-play better a lot of the time because fish like to do this, and the UTG player would likely raise the fish with any big hand because he knows he's getting action) so I would raise right here and try to play a big pot heads-up against the fish. I'd probably make it $300. |
Last edited by dsaxton on Fri, 27 Jun 2008, 1:14am; edited 2 times in total
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Posted: Fri, 27 Jun 2008, 1:10am Post subject: |
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17154
WPP: 83
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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Posted: Fri, 27 Jun 2008, 4:06am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3204
WPP: 69
Location: over there
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| Yup raise and cry if you get 3bet. |
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Posted: Fri, 27 Jun 2008, 5:09am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1647
WPP: 100
Location: Toronto'ish
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Alright, I raiiiiiiised it up. And to my surprise, the fish FOLDED but the other "more solid" player called which had me worried. The turn was also not the greatest card in the world.
Bet or check for pot control this deep?
CryptoLogic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$5
5 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $1100
CO: $469
Hero: $1372.15
SB: $1249.35
BB: $857.50
Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with
UTG calls, CO folds, Hero raises to $25, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.
Flop: ($80, 3 players)
SB bets $70, UTG calls, Hero raises to $240, SB folds, UTG calls.
Turn:  ($630, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero ? |
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Posted: Fri, 27 Jun 2008, 5:25am Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 490
WPP: 41
Location: Huddersfield, England
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I really like a bet/fold on the turn, although my bet sizing needs work.
Probably around 420 |
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Posted: Fri, 27 Jun 2008, 6:49am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3204
WPP: 69
Location: over there
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| Ya I think $400/fold. Even though we'd be getting sick odds vs. a shove I don't think he's the type to semi-bluff shove the turn. |
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Posted: Fri, 27 Jun 2008, 8:33am Post subject: |
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 559
WPP: 109
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The games where I play are simply too aggro to bet/fold this on such a drawy turn. I can't put in over half of eff stacks and then fold. I know a bet/fold has some merit, but I would still bet/call or just check behind for pot control, depending on reads.
b/f $400 doesn't seem very good because we only need 19% eq to call, and we should probably have very close to that against his range. Here AF4 villain just called twice, so something isn't right. I'd check behind and very likely call a bet on the river. |
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Posted: Fri, 27 Jun 2008, 9:00am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 1945
WPP: 55
Location: Dizzy
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Posted: Fri, 27 Jun 2008, 9:02am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1647
WPP: 100
Location: Toronto'ish
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| pocketfours wrote: |
b/f $400 doesn't seem very good because we only need 19% eq to call, and we should probably have very close to that against his range. Here AF4 villain just called twice, so something isn't right. I'd check behind and very likely call a bet on the river. |
I took P4's line here, though thinking about it in retrospect I kinda don't feel like villain would have bluff c/r'd me here on this turn with like JT or something, so I probably should have bet $400 and folded, despite the good pot odds I was getting.
As played ....
CryptoLogic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$5
5 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $1100
CO: $469
Hero: $1372.15
SB: $1249.35
BB: $857.50
Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with
UTG calls, CO folds, Hero raises to $25, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.
Flop: ($80, 3 players)
SB bets $70, UTG calls, Hero raises to $240, SB folds, UTG calls.
Turn: ($630, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.
River:  ($630, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero loves how the board keeps getting worse.. and....? |
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Posted: Fri, 27 Jun 2008, 11:36pm Post subject: |
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 559
WPP: 109
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| I'd check behind vs this guy. |
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Posted: Sat, 28 Jun 2008, 12:57am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 3134
WPP: 87
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| haha overbet shove as a value-bluff is kinda cool |
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Posted: Sat, 28 Jun 2008, 1:29am Post subject: |
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 559
WPP: 109
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| Genitruc wrote: | | haha overbet shove as a value-bluff is kinda cool |
Yeah, and so is betting like $133 and calling a shove. |
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Posted: Sat, 28 Jun 2008, 6:59am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1647
WPP: 100
Location: Toronto'ish
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| Genitruc wrote: | | haha overbet shove as a value-bluff is kinda cool |
hmm as a bluff or for value? |
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Posted: Sat, 28 Jun 2008, 7:07am Post subject: |
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 559
WPP: 109
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| griffey24 wrote: | | Genitruc wrote: | | haha overbet shove as a value-bluff is kinda cool |
hmm as a bluff or for value? |
As a value-bluff you donk. |
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Posted: Sat, 28 Jun 2008, 7:17am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1647
WPP: 100
Location: Toronto'ish
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| pocketfours wrote: | | griffey24 wrote: | | Genitruc wrote: | | haha overbet shove as a value-bluff is kinda cool |
hmm as a bluff or for value? |
As a value-bluff you donk. |
You people are crazy with your 250bb deep value bluffs!
I think I prefer a check, though getting only one street of value with aces kinda makes me feel like a donk anyhow! |
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Posted: Sat, 28 Jun 2008, 7:26am Post subject: |
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 559
WPP: 109
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| griffey24 wrote: | | pocketfours wrote: | | griffey24 wrote: | | Genitruc wrote: | | haha overbet shove as a value-bluff is kinda cool |
hmm as a bluff or for value? |
As a value-bluff you donk. |
You people are crazy with your 250bb deep value bluffs!
I think I prefer a check, though getting only one street of value with aces kinda makes me feel like a donk anyhow! |
Getting two pot sized bets of value with one pair is good/std. |
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