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2/4 200bb deep vs. laggy reg

  
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zook
Post Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 5:20pm    Post subject: 2/4 200bb deep vs. laggy reg Reply with quote
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Villain is a 2p2'er, good regular that plays as high as 5/10. He runs 29/20/2 over a lot of hands and is an aggro 3bettor and seems to 4bet more than most. My notes say that he 4bet me twice 200bb deep in a previous session, I folded both times and he's already 4bet me once at this table and I've folded. So, I decided to call this time. Is pre-flop terrible? Flop plan?

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Holdem Ring game - Blinds: $2/$4 - 5 players - Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $1040.30
CO: $807.30
Hero: $800
SB: $499.80
BB: $140

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with T Spade A Spade
UTG folds, CO raises to $14, Hero raises to $48, 2 folds, CO raises to $158, Hero calls.

Flop: T Heart 2 Spade 7 Club ($322, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero...


Last edited by zook on Tue, 27 May 2008, 6:17pm; edited 1 time in total
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IowaSkinsFan
Post Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 5:37pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
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As played id check but I don't tend to get out of hand preflop here, but it can't be too bad.
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nutsinho
Post Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 6:11pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
midstakes donk
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thats a huge 4bet...id just fold
and check back flop as played, what happens on the turn?
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zook
Post Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 6:17pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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nutsinho wrote:
thats a huge 4bet...id just fold

converter screwed up, fixed. still a big 4bet though.
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Alexos
Post Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 6:48pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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its actually a pretty standard 4bet size for 200bb deep...

PF is meh, i guess its ok its sooted cant be that bad against that guy. I check flop too.
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Toadstool
Post Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 9:08pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I really dont like the pf call, A10s is just a hand that suffers from big reverse implied odds in a 4 bet pot, this deep i'd much rather be calling with a hand such as 10 9s, as I wouldn't really feel comfortable stacking off with A10 if I had less than top two.

On the flop - I dont mind a check behind as villain is likely drawing to 2 or 3 outs if he is behind and id rather try and see a showdown as cheap as possible in this situation. If you bet the flop and he wants to play then its almost surely going to be that he wants to play for 200BB's and your hand is not faring well against his range if he does.
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pocketfours
Post Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 10:35pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Why are you raising this guy pre? I think you should go with polarized 3-bets and just call with hands that have good nut potential and are ahead of his range, like this one.
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zook
Post Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 10:51pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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pocketfours wrote:
Why are you raising this guy pre? I think you should go with polarized 3-bets and just call with hands that have good nut potential and are ahead of his range, like this one.

This is a good point and usually my strategy. I was a bit off my game today Sad

So I bet $200 on the flop and he c/r'ed AI ($442 to call to win $1164)...
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will641
Post Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 12:52am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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pocketfours wrote:
Why are you raising this guy pre? I think you should go with polarized 3-bets and just call with hands that have good nut potential and are ahead of his range, like this one.


i really like this point. i feel like this is a big problem of mine. that is, 3 betting the wrong players with KQs, ATs, etc.
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nutsinho
Post Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 2:22am    Post subject: Reply with quote
midstakes donk
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yeah i like calling ATs always unless you think you can induce something based on history/game flow. This new 4bet size does seem a lot more standard. I think that floating it is all right sometimes but I'm going to play the hand you flop pretty cautiously (I would shove if he bet but when he checks I think you need to check back). As played I think you should call because if youre not good you still usually have about 26% equity.
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Fnord
Post Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 4:00am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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zook wrote:
($442 to call to win $1164)...


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.287% 29.93% 00.36% 12299634 146956.50 { AsTs }
Hand 1: 69.713% 69.36% 00.36% 28501749 146956.50 { TT+ }

Given that his range is certainly wider, I think you're pot-stuck.
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Massimo
Post Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 9:04am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Almost as bad as that idiot heybude
Almost as bad as that idiot heybude

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Is the opp Dr. Giggy?
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zook
Post Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 10:35am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Massimo wrote:
Is the opp Dr. Giggy?

No, gopher.

Results: I called he showed Tc6c. He bitched about how bad I played it and challenged me to HU Smile I do think I butchered the hand.
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BigPapi
Post Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 12:22pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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you can't call if he just checked flop Wink
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Deanglow
Post Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 1:03pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I think the call preflop might be slightly losing, but if you are betting this flop you cannot fold.
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sauce123
Post Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 2:19pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Deanglow wrote:
I think the call preflop might be slightly losing, but if you are betting this flop you cannot fold.


i was gonna say stuff but this is better and more succinct, bet/calling flop is probably ur best option given his line though and the pf action
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JL
Post Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 12:33am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Fnord wrote:
zook wrote:
($442 to call to win $1164)...


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.287% 29.93% 00.36% 12299634 146956.50 { AsTs }
Hand 1: 69.713% 69.36% 00.36% 28501749 146956.50 { TT+ }

Given that his range is certainly wider, I think you're pot-stuck.


This is for pre-flop. You forgot to add the flop.

Board: Td 2s 7c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 21.804% 21.80% 00.00% 4749 0.00 { AsTs }
Hand 1: 78.196% 78.20% 00.00% 17031 0.00 { TT+ }
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Genitruc
Post Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 1:10am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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wtf rigged equity calculation didn't include T6cc
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Deanglow
Post Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 2:18am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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sauce123 wrote:
Deanglow wrote:
I think the call preflop might be slightly losing, but if you are betting this flop you cannot fold.


i was gonna say stuff but this is better and more succinct, bet/calling flop is probably ur best option given his line though and the pf action


I also think between checking flop with SD value/for deception/whatever and bet/calling that b/c is better.
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Alexos
Post Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 7:38am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Genitruc wrote:
wtf rigged equity calculation didn't include 23o !!
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bigred
Post Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 10:25am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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zook wrote:
Massimo wrote:
Is the opp Dr. Giggy?

No, gopher.

Results: I called he showed Tc6c. He bitched about how bad I played it and challenged me to HU Smile I do think I butchered the hand.


Because calling with T6s is a good play? (Serious question, pinch of sarcasm))
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griffey24
Post Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 10:50am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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bigred wrote:
zook wrote:
Massimo wrote:
Is the opp Dr. Giggy?

No, gopher.

Results: I called he showed Tc6c. He bitched about how bad I played it and challenged me to HU Smile I do think I butchered the hand.


Because calling with T6s is a good play? (Serious question, pinch of sarcasm))


He shoved with T6s, he didn't call with it. So I don't think his play is that bad either. Puts a lot of midpairs and stuff in a crap spot.

Zook - what's the worst pair you're betting here?You bet calling like 88, or A7?
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zook
Post Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 11:52am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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griffey24 wrote:
Zook - what's the worst pair you're betting here?You bet calling like 88, or A7?

I like A7 a lot better than 88. 88 needs a lot of overcard bluffs in his range to be a +EV call, A7 not as many. I probably don't call with either pre, but I shouldn't have called with ATs...
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bigred
Post Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 1:21pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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griffey24 wrote:
bigred wrote:
zook wrote:
Massimo wrote:
Is the opp Dr. Giggy?

No, gopher.

Results: I called he showed Tc6c. He bitched about how bad I played it and challenged me to HU Smile I do think I butchered the hand.


Because calling with T6s is a good play? (Serious question, pinch of sarcasm))


He shoved with T6s, he didn't call with it. So I don't think his play is that bad either. Puts a lot of midpairs and stuff in a crap spot.

Zook - what's the worst pair you're betting here?You bet calling like 88, or A7?


It's a good pf call though?
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griffey24
Post Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 2:53pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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bigred wrote:


It's a good pf call though?


He 4-bet T6s preflop, and didn't