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Posted: Fri, 15 Feb 2008, 12:50pm Post subject: 5/10 FU utg limper
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Almost as bad as that idiot heybude
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 2735
WPP: 72
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Main villain in this hand is a 19/15/2.5. I don't have many reads on any of the 5/10 players cause i haven't played the level much, but I have seen this guy cold call (he wasn't the original raiser) my position rr from the blinds, and then c/s a Kxx two tone flop. He's definitely a reg and he's kind of just gone under the radar. I've never seen him limp before but i assumed he'd reraise AA or KK pre given the preflop strength i just showed (then again, cold calling a rr oop with AA seems pretty bad so who knows).
The other villain is a non tricky reg and i am not worried about him at all. He almost always has a straight draw, FD, or TP (most likely TP) here and is folding to a shove and not shoving over a call. He didn't think any before calling pre so i doubt it's JJ or TT, and i also highly doubt he'd call the flop bet with those.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (5 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Button ($778.50)
Hero ($1655)
BB ($1050.25)
UTG ($1447.75)
MP ($1837.50)
Preflop: Hero is SB with K , Q .
UTG calls $10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $60, BB calls $45, UTG calls $45.
Flop: ($170) T, J, 4 (3 players)
Hero bets $130, BB calls $130, UTG raises to $470, Hero |
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Posted: Fri, 15 Feb 2008, 1:00pm Post subject:
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6104
WPP: 73
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| Don't bet the flop. As played i guess shove, we didn't flop the joint just to play it like we had nothing. |
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Posted: Fri, 15 Feb 2008, 1:19pm Post subject:
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Almost as bad as that idiot heybude
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 2735
WPP: 72
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| IowaSkinsFan wrote: | | Don't bet the flop. |
Really? Whats the logic behind this? |
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Posted: Fri, 15 Feb 2008, 2:32pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3037
WPP: 95
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Posted: Sat, 16 Feb 2008, 4:18am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 252
WPP: 261
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| Bet the flop, if you are prepared to shove after he raises. Don't bet the flop, if you are not. Somehow I always get raised on this flop, this is the reason for ISF statement, I guess. |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Feb 2008, 6:27am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 336
WPP: 74
Location: UK, Brighton
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| the mid range comment is that effectively saying nearly wa/wb? although not quite but villain is likely to fold or want to get it allin but nothing inbetween? Effectively meaning we can't bet for value? |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Feb 2008, 1:02pm Post subject:
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Almost as bad as that idiot heybude
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 2735
WPP: 72
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| MuddyWicket wrote: | | the mid range comment is that effectively saying nearly wa/wb? although not quite but villain is likely to fold or want to get it allin but nothing inbetween? Effectively meaning we can't bet for value? |
Well with a draw were not going to be wa/wb ever. But yeah i think he's saying that he's never going to show up with KJ or something like that here, which i completely agree with. The interesting thing is that i might fold out low FD's by shoving. |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Feb 2008, 1:29pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3402
WPP: 70
Location: over there
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I think preflop is a little thin if you are taking a shot and don't have mad reads, I probably just limp along but w/e.
It's really weird that he limped I think but I'd guess his range is 44/JTs or draws. I don't really see what else it could be. Assuming that is true then we do have some FE and are in good shape if called by another draw so I shove. |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Feb 2008, 1:39pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 490
WPP: 41
Location: Huddersfield, England
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wow 5/10 already?
Nice work |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Feb 2008, 1:41pm Post subject:
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6104
WPP: 73
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Sorry for the quick response.
I'm weirded out because getting it all in here is surely -EV if someone raises. It seems like c/c the flop while it has almost 0 metagame value is +EV, as we get pot odds on our draw.
Not exactly sure what to do still. But if we bet no doubt we should raise over a raise. |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Feb 2008, 4:15pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 2099
WPP: 97
Location: Toronto'ish
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This spot sucks pretty hard. We're somewhat deep so we could convince ourselves that we have FE but I really don't think we do. He's jamming this flop hard, and I'd imagine he shows up with JT, 44 or Axclubs a lot here.
I honestly bet/shove here, but mostly cause I'm dumb/aggro in the moment and not cause I think thats the best play. After thinking this through more, I'm not sure that call or fold isn't the best play. If we call, I'd imagine clubs would check through the turn, and we can just c/f turn unimproved.
If he checks through the turn, we can try river stealing on all non-club rivers.
The reason I say fold is cause I think we're a 2:1 dog against his shove calling range:
Board: Tc Jc 4d
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.391% 34.39% 00.00% 5788 0.00 { KcQd }
Hand 1: 65.609% 65.61% 00.00% 11042 0.00 { 44, Ac8c, Ac7c, Ac6c, Ac4c, JTs, 9c8c, JTo }
I can't really believe I'm saying fold, cause I never say fold, but I think this spot is really bad. I'm not even sure how happy we can be about calling and turning a straight with a club, nor will a K or Q necessarily put us ahead.
At first I didn't see why ISF said not to bet this flop, but I can see why now. Also anything that BB/UTG called with preflop probably isn't folding this board. |
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Posted: Sun, 17 Feb 2008, 6:48am Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 608
WPP: 107
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| I'm not really thrilled about pre, but I would b/f this flop since UTG will pretty much always lead when checked to with atc, and I think b/f is slightly better than c/c (mostly because c/c will narrow your range much more). |
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Posted: Tue, 19 Feb 2008, 2:11am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1331
WPP: 139
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C/c or b/c cannot be correct here. We would never do that with JJ so we don't do it with anything else. We'd also be forcing ourselves into more difficult latter street decisions, and those more often than not turn out to be neg ev.
So then it's b3b or b/f. Villain is not raising marginally unless he's a moron, so our FE is minimal. Looks like a b/f. It's a b3b in a hu 3bet pot or hu 100bb pot. |
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Posted: Wed, 20 Feb 2008, 1:18pm Post subject:
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Almost as bad as that idiot heybude
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 2735
WPP: 72
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| Anyways, i ended up shoving. villain snapped with AA (w-t-f, and a lot of people on 2p2 think this guy is good... i don't understand how that could possibly be a good way to play AA pre). Luckily the turn came an A and he didn't boat up so SHIP IT. |
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Posted: Thu, 21 Feb 2008, 9:08am Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 608
WPP: 107
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There is nothing wrong with occasionally calling with AA preflop when IP. I actually like it here because of your preflop raise size. Big raises preflop usually mean strong aggression postflop.
I think the only clear mistake in this hand was your bet/shove on the flop.
I also don't like villain's raise size on the flop. He was clearly committing himself and thereby giving you an easy way out, but you failed to take it. |
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