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Posted: Mon, 27 Nov 2006, 5:44pm Post subject: When the PFR Checks to You HU
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 3608
WPP: 51
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If a PFR checks the flop OOP do you almost always bet if it's HU? Their check should usually be a HUGE sign of weakness right? I've been firing with any 2 lately when they check, and it seems to be working out alright so far. Am I the last on earth to start doing this or what?
Also, another thing I was thinking about was that I don't remember the last time I c/r'ed after being the PFR. Is this a leak? Does anyone use this move with any regularity? |
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Posted: Mon, 27 Nov 2006, 5:49pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17644
WPP: 82
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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Great topic.
I always have mixed feeling here. Right now I'm like 75% check 25% bet and think that might be backwards. |
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Posted: Mon, 27 Nov 2006, 5:55pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 3608
WPP: 51
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| Fnord wrote: | Great topic.
I always have mixed feeling here. Right now I'm like 75% check 25% bet and think that might be backwards. |
I used to check lots also, but I thought about what it should usually mean when a sane PFR checks. I usually take it to mean:
A) I have the absolute nuts & don't want to scare you
B) I am really weak and want you to have the pot now |
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Posted: Mon, 27 Nov 2006, 6:01pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1619
WPP: 56
Location: Looking for my anima
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And he doesn't have the nuts as often as he has nothing.
It can also be a flushdraw/OESD, as really unintelligent players often go into auto check-call mode with these types of draws. |
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Posted: Mon, 27 Nov 2006, 6:04pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17644
WPP: 82
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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| martindcx1e wrote: |
A) I have the absolute nuts & don't want to scare you
B) I am really weak and want you to have the pot now |
C) I am really weak but don't want to give up the pot, so I'm going to check/raise my crap if you dare to bet. |
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Posted: Mon, 27 Nov 2006, 6:06pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 3608
WPP: 51
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| Fnord wrote: | | martindcx1e wrote: |
A) I have the absolute nuts & don't want to scare you
B) I am really weak and want you to have the pot now |
C) I am really weak but don't want to give up the pot, so I'm going to check/raise my crap if you dare to bet. |
this is what i have yet to see very much of. maybe this happens much more at 200nl? |
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Posted: Mon, 27 Nov 2006, 6:19pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 883
WPP: 85
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| I'm a wimp and tend to bet if they check it twice. Most of the guys I'm playing will bet a small amount when weak, rather than check. Usually a check is a monster (or TPTK that he thinks is a monster). |
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Posted: Mon, 27 Nov 2006, 6:52pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 3007
WPP: 93
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I tend to bet about 100% of the time into tight players until they start check/raising me. Obviously this is exploitable but I havnt been exploited so far. They usually give up.
Loose players are more difficult because they quite often have stuff like JQ on an AQX flop. they wont bet it but theyll call down. Same goes for when they have weak aces or any draws. |
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Posted: Mon, 27 Nov 2006, 10:11pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 286
WPP: 118
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| I usually always bet 2/3 pot when the pf raiser checks to me OOP. Most of the time he folds but on occasion he raises in which case I fold unless I have the goods. I find that it is profitable to do this at $100nl full ring. |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Nov 2006, 4:45am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 7707
WPP: 71
Location: Petra Marklund FTW ^^^^
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| Fnord wrote: | | martindcx1e wrote: |
A) I have the absolute nuts & don't want to scare you
B) I am really weak and want you to have the pot now |
C) I am really weak but don't want to give up the pot, so I'm going to check/raise my crap if you dare to bet. |
QQ on Kxx in a raised pot when opp reraises AK most of the time is the type of hand that came to mind for me.
I like a mixture of c-betting and c/r'ing. I like the c/r as when its first used it always seems like a bluff, or opponents sit there and think wtf he wouldnt play the nuts like that. Of course once you have established you will c/r with AK on Kxx or KK on 26T rainbow boards then you are allowed to steal a whole lot more pots becuase people simply wont want to play lukewarm hands like a mid pp on a raggy board facing a c/r as the turn requires them to put a whole lot of money in with what is second best based on the previous action, when really we can just push the around with missed overs or any random pp fwiw.
I use it a whole lot because i get fed up of c-betting into opponents who know my hand ranges pretty well.
I dont want to check and automatically give the pot away to them, nor do i want to bet and seem like i only have a hand when i do so. Mixing in a c/r at about 30% instead of a c-bet work for me to keep my opponents from calling down and from stealing pots (maybe allows me free cards too) |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Nov 2006, 12:01pm Post subject:
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OLD MAN RIVER
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 3550
WPP: 75
Location: Canuckistan
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| I pretty well auto bet. I only check when my opponent is a calling station or has shown a tendency to c/r a lot. |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Nov 2006, 12:07pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 1726
WPP: 136
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| Check out the cbet stats, if they cbet a lot and then they check to you HU I bet. If I get raised then I make a note that they try to go for a check/raise even as PFRer with a big hand, if they fold I also make a note. If they dont cbet very often then Im checking behind most of my hands unless my hand has some value. |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Nov 2006, 12:25pm Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 21
WPP: 260
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| I play 25nl on stars and there a bet works almost always, if he rises i ll probably fold and take a note |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Nov 2006, 1:34pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 3248
WPP: 165
Location: Ohio
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entirely opponent and situation dependant.
Most people are terrible at balancing their lines here though (e.g. always betting made hands, hence, when they check.....) |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Nov 2006, 1:44pm Post subject:
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midstakes donk
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 2290
WPP: 46
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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i almost never check as the pfr heads up with intention to check/fold
i dont checkraise flops enough though
if i check after being the pfr I may be planning to call one barrel (gutshot + runner draw, AK high on disc. flop, call 2 barrels (JJ or TT on Q62r type flops, call 3 barrels (tptk, sometimes tp2k on dry board), or call flop and c/r turn (top set or stealing aggrodonks monies with possibly a couple of outs) |
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Posted: Wed, 29 Nov 2006, 1:59pm Post subject:
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Life Donk
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1690
WPP: 89
Location: Having a J. Arthur
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| andy-akb wrote: | | Check out the cbet stats, if they cbet a lot and then they check to you HU I bet. If I get raised then I make a note that they try to go for a check/raise even as PFRer with a big hand, if they fold I also make a note. If they dont cbet very often then Im checking behind most of my hands unless my hand has some value. | Keep in mind that the c-bet stat needs a lot of hands observed to be somewhat close to the reality. |
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Posted: Wed, 29 Nov 2006, 3:51pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 1920
WPP: 120
Location: St. Louis
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| I'm guessing that people that don't bet very often when the PFR checks to them are also are the type that rarely ever raise with nothing when the PFR bets the flop. |
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