| Facing $150 raise on the turn, what's your action? (assuming villain will go AI on river if you call) |
| call |
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42% |
[ 11 ] |
| fold |
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23% |
[ 6 ] |
| 3-bet AI |
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34% |
[ 9 ] |
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| Total Votes : 26 |
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Posted: Thu, 09 Mar 2006, 9:38am Post subject: aces still good? 5/10
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Strike 3
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 263
WPP: 176
Location: SITTING ON 'RILLA'S FINGER
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I'm holding   in the SB in a 9-handed 5/10 game. MP (around $600) open-raises to $35, guy 2 off the button with a full stack raises to $130. I think and call. Everyone folds.
Flop comes    . I check, villain checks behind.
Turn comes  . I lead for $175 into a $305 pot. Villain raises to $425. What's your play, assuming you know villain is putting the rest AI (about $500) on the river? I don't have a good read on the guy, as I haven't seen much of him at the site, but he seems solid.
villain's potential holdings that I am beating/tie: AQ, KK, AA, bluff
villain's potential holdings to which I am behind: QQ |
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Posted: Thu, 09 Mar 2006, 9:53am Post subject:
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Season III
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1759
WPP: 113
Location: Perfect Season
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| KK and AA bet the flop and AQ usually doesn't make that raise PF. QQ makes the most sense. |
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Posted: Thu, 09 Mar 2006, 10:31am Post subject:
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HABITUAL LINE-STEPPER
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 5226
WPP: 74
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
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reraise preflop?
is that an option?
Of course this is coming from the 25nl fish. Even if you took down the pot right then and there, it would be a decent pot (like 5bb or so) |
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Posted: Thu, 09 Mar 2006, 11:25am Post subject: Re: aces still good? 5/10
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17644
WPP: 82
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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I really like a flop bet here.
AQ will raise "to see where he's at", then often stick the rest in on the re-raise because he's "pot-struck"
AK loves his hand and will raise because he thinks you're weak.
AA/KK can't get away from his hand.
QQ is gonna stack you almost always anyway, this is the risk of smooth calling pre-flop. Plus enough money went in pre-flop not to worry.
| PO$$E$$ED wrote: | | assuming you know villain is putting the rest AI (about $500) on the river? |
Big assumption. Are you sure he never checks behind?
How common is checking behind on the flop in this game? |
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Posted: Thu, 09 Mar 2006, 12:22pm Post subject:
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Strike 3
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 263
WPP: 176
Location: SITTING ON 'RILLA'S FINGER
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| Renton wrote: | reraise preflop?
is that an option?
Of course this is coming from the 25nl fish. Even if you took down the pot right then and there, it would be a decent pot (like 5bb or so) |
Sure it's an option. The reason why I didn't push preflop was because the initial raiser ( the guy in MP who raised to $35 preflop) was loose and I wanted to leave the window open for him to get crazy with AK or something, or call with a marginal hand. Also with the $130 raise nobody at the table was getting the right price to try to suck out with a set. |
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Posted: Thu, 09 Mar 2006, 12:23pm Post subject:
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Strike 3
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 263
WPP: 176
Location: SITTING ON 'RILLA'S FINGER
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Posted: Thu, 09 Mar 2006, 12:43pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3037
WPP: 95
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| Play for stacks. Villain shows KK. |
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Posted: Thu, 09 Mar 2006, 1:56pm Post subject:
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HABITUAL LINE-STEPPER
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 5226
WPP: 74
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
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| PO$$E$$ED wrote: | | Renton wrote: | reraise preflop?
is that an option?
Of course this is coming from the 25nl fish. Even if you took down the pot right then and there, it would be a decent pot (like 5bb or so) |
Sure it's an option. The reason why I didn't push preflop was because the initial raiser ( the guy in MP who raised to $35 preflop) was loose and I wanted to leave the window open for him to get crazy with AK or something, or call with a marginal hand. Also with the $130 raise nobody at the table was getting the right price to try to suck out with a set. |
Is there any amount you could raise that wouldn't unshroud your hand? Like maybe a minraise just to get the UTG guy out of the scenario? |
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Posted: Thu, 09 Mar 2006, 1:57pm Post subject:
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HABITUAL LINE-STEPPER
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 5226
WPP: 74
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
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| PO$$E$$ED wrote: | | Renton wrote: | reraise preflop?
is that an option?
Of course this is coming from the 25nl fish. Even if you took down the pot right then and there, it would be a decent pot (like 5bb or so) |
Sure it's an option. The reason why I didn't push preflop was because the initial raiser ( the guy in MP who raised to $35 preflop) was loose and I wanted to leave the window open for him to get crazy with AK or something, or call with a marginal hand. Also with the $130 raise nobody at the table was getting the right price to try to suck out with a set. |
Is there any amount you could raise that wouldn't unshroud your hand? Like maybe a minraise just to get the open raiser out of the scenario? |
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Posted: Thu, 09 Mar 2006, 2:09pm Post subject: Re: aces still good? 5/10
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Strike 3
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 263
WPP: 176
Location: SITTING ON 'RILLA'S FINGER
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| Fnord wrote: | I really like a flop bet here.
AQ will raise "to see where he's at", then often stick the rest in on the re-raise because he's "pot-struck"
AK loves his hand and will raise because he thinks you're weak.
AA/KK can't get away from his hand.
QQ is gonna stack you almost always anyway, this is the risk of smooth calling pre-flop. Plus enough money went in pre-flop not to worry.
| PO$$E$$ED wrote: | | assuming you know villain is putting the rest AI (about $500) on the river? |
Big assumption. Are you sure he never checks behind?
How common is checking behind on the flop in this game? |
I was pretty sure he wasn't going to check behind on the river after raising to $425 on the turn, given the way he played.
I decided to check the flop for several reasons. The flop only hit QQ, there's nothing he could be drawing to, and by checking I am inducing bluffs from hands like AK and also concealing my hand. I was pretty much committed to the hand, and I decided it was appropriate to slowplay the hand to get the most value out of it if I'm ahead. |
Last edited by PO$$E$$ED on Tue, 14 Mar 2006, 11:48am; edited 2 times in total
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Posted: Thu, 09 Mar 2006, 10:39pm Post subject:
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yep, your logic is correct.. Pay off his QQ... (which given his play seems to be a likely holding)...
Yet, if he had KK/AA money would of gone in middle no matter what.
Only hand you're really maximizing value with is AK/AQ |
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Posted: Sun, 12 Mar 2006, 2:21pm Post subject:
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6113
WPP: 73
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| supermoneyz1 wrote: | | yep, your logic is correct.. Pay off his QQ... (which given his play seems to be a likely holding)... |
If you're that sure he has QQ why would you tell him to pay it off? |
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Posted: Mon, 13 Mar 2006, 4:20pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 2911
WPP: 107
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| IowaSkinsFan wrote: | | supermoneyz1 wrote: | | yep, your logic is correct.. Pay off his QQ... (which given his play seems to be a likely holding)... |
If you're that sure he has QQ why would you tell him to pay it off? |
likey != sure.
Although I should talk, since I paid off a bigger flush with a baby flush when I was sure that he had it. |
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Posted: Mon, 13 Mar 2006, 5:28pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3402
WPP: 70
Location: over there
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| Rondavu wrote: | | Play for stacks. Villain shows KK. |
Will he play for stacks with the Q there? |
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Posted: Mon, 13 Mar 2006, 11:12pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 3248
WPP: 165
Location: Ohio
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How deep are you? I'm going to assume button's full stack = 100bb and you cover.
Cold-calling the reraise preflop is so transparent. I think you do with this AK or worse approximately never. Ditto with pretty much every non-huge hand.
That, coupled with the fact that you have the worst position, and MP still has to be heard from, I'd just 4-bet this preflop and get enough of it in preflop to make your decisions easy. If you think your opponents are bad enough to not see the transparency in your preflop play, the call might be ok, but playing a 3 way pot here oop absolutely sucks. Bleh, I really think 4-betting preflop is best in this specific situation.
Postflop I think you are going to the felt here almost regardless, so taking a line that will get you max value out of second best hands should be the way to go. If he has one of the 3 combos of QQQ, well, that just sucks. Lead, c/c, c/r could all be appropriate on this flop, and I'm trying to get it all-in by the turn.
As played, I just 3-bet this turn all-in. That is assuming AKs/maybe AQs is in his range given preflop play.
Fwiw, I think he has QQQ a lot here, but I still think this is the best way to play it. |
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Posted: Mon, 13 Mar 2006, 11:59pm Post subject:
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EAT BUGS
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 7810
WPP: 51
Location: trying to live
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| Lukie wrote: | | I think you do with this AK or worse approximately never. |
he can call with any pair for set value here |
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Posted: Tue, 14 Mar 2006, 12:35pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 2911
WPP: 107
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| gabe wrote: | | Lukie wrote: | | I think you do with this AK or worse approximately never. |
he can call with any pair for set value here |
Is a full stack $1K? I don't think you can cold-call $130 with like 44 unless he has at least $1,000 behind. Even then, it's pretty close. |
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Posted: Tue, 14 Mar 2006, 1:08pm Post subject:
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3-of-a-Kind
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 108
WPP: 42
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| Lukie wrote: | | ... I really think 4-betting preflop is best in this specific situation. |
What does 4 bet preflop mean?
3 bet is betting all three streets, correct? |
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Posted: Tue, 14 Mar 2006, 2:07pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 2911
WPP: 107
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| naturaltan wrote: | | Lukie wrote: | | ... I really think 4-betting preflop is best in this specific situation. |
What does 4 bet preflop mean?
3 bet is betting all three streets, correct? |
No, 3 bet = bet - raise - re-raise in a GIVEN street.
4 bet (also called ''cap" in Limit) bet - raise - re-raise - re-re-raise. |
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Posted: Tue, 14 Mar 2006, 3:11pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17644
WPP: 82
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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Posted: Tue, 14 Mar 2006, 3:40pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 392
WPP: 63
Location: Midwest
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I guess my problem with the hand is why arent you simply leading into the PFR on the flop OOP? You can lead and either get a fold or lead and get raised (let's face it he's not calling). This way you can 3-bet push with your hand on the flop where he already killed the possibility of playing anything for set value preflop...BUT if you give him the free turn then small PP's can play for set value on 4 cards instead of 3...This is a situation where passing up the bet trying to catch the PFR c-betting kills you.
PK |
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Posted: Tue, 14 Mar 2006, 3:48pm Post subject:
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Strike 3
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 263
WPP: 176
Location: SITTING ON 'RILLA'S FINGER
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| Lukie wrote: |
Cold-calling the reraise preflop is so transparent. I think you do with this AK or worse approximately never. Ditto with pretty much every non-huge hand.
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And raising a $130 re-raise isn't giving away my hand? If I re-raise to say $300 the only hands he can put me on is AA/KK. If I call, my range opens up to TT-AA/JA/QA/KA and even PPs lower than tens if he thinks I'm loose. Also,
I felt that his re-raise showed a lot of strength, and I felt he would be holding KK/QQ here most of the time. I thought it was unlikely he would fold to a raise, so I called and left the door open for the initial raiser in MP to get frisky. |
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Posted: Tue, 14 Mar 2006, 4:37pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 2195
WPP: 52
Location: NZ
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| Po$$e$$ed can you PM me your sn sometime so I can ghost you buddy? kthx |
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Posted: Thu, 16 Mar 2006, 12:12am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 574
WPP: 724
Location: Chi-town
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| TT JJ and QQ is what I can put him on when he reraises you on the turn. And you say hes solid so TT is probably less likely. I dont really know how these big games play, but those are the only hands I can see someone taking this line with. I guess if he has KK he can check behind hoping to pick off a bluff from AK TT or JJ. Blah, I dontk now, this seems like one of those hands thats pretty much even EV. And at these stakes since you are playing with the same guys fairly often (right?) it seems best to go with it so you can grab a r | |
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