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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 12:40pm Post subject: I just like to hit buttons |
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Full House
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 1145
WPP: 94
Location: KC, MO
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Villain was Taggy(21/17) over less than 100 hands and 3bet about 11% so far. We do not have any 3betting history & my image is clean 18/15 TAG. My plan was to CRAI flop w/ a favorable board. He can only call about 2.5% of his hands at the most. I figure he has to bet the Ace on that flop so I led the turn repping a missed AK CRAI. The only hand I can put him on after the turn raise is a re-steal, Tc9c, 6c5c, 77-88 or a weaker A like AJs, AQ
What do you think?
No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
BB ($101)
UTG ($171.05)
MP ($88.30)
Button ($110.60)
Hero (SB) ($133.20)
Preflop: Hero is SB with 4 , 4
3 folds, Hero raises $3.50, BB raises $13, Hero calls $10
Flop: ($28) 7, A, 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks
Turn: ($28) A (2 players)
Hero bets $20, BB raises $45, Hero folds
Total pot: $68 |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 12:42pm Post subject: |
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midstakes donk
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 2207
WPP: 47
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 12:48pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 1145
WPP: 94
Location: KC, MO
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I figured I would get a lot of that. At what point do you begin to play back at these guys? At what 3bet% & what typical holding do you use? Or should I just 4bet bruff?
Another question is how many hands of data do I need to know 11% 3betting is too much. |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 12:50pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 2936
WPP: 109
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calling with 44 is not playing back.
All the questions about 3 betting are situational. When is he threebetting? from what positions, and who? |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 1:07pm Post subject: |
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Straight Flush
Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 4864
WPP: 82
Location: Pwnsylvania
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shove PF if he 3bets a lot
calling has to be the most -EV of all the options |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 1:13pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 3605
WPP: 61
Location: TAGfishery
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| bigspenda73 wrote: | | shove PF if he 3bets a lot |
how is this better than just 4betting to like $33? solely on the fact that he can bluff shove? because i dont think your standard nl100 villain is doing that enough here, even bvb
| bigspenda73 wrote: | | calling has to be the most -EV of all the options |
agree with this |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 1:21pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 1145
WPP: 94
Location: KC, MO
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| jyms wrote: | calling with 44 is not playing back.
All the questions about 3 betting are situational. When is he threebetting? from what positions, and who? |
He is three betting people IP and once as a re-steal from BB vs BU. Basically taking advantage of wide raisers and position. If you read OP you would see the plan to play back. Calling was just to prevent AQ+ from shoving on me and then to find a favorable flop.
| bigspenda73 wrote: | shove PF if he 3bets a lot
calling has to be the most -EV of all the options |
Shoving seems like it lets him play most optimally. I would think a 4bet bluff is better.
If you have seen my posts lately, I'm not one who's unwilling to embarrass myself. I know a lot of these hands lately are crappy, but I am really trying to work on my game after playing on cruise control for over a year.
I do appreciate all comments, but please make them constructive.
I think I have identified a better way to play back, 4bet bluff or wait for a better spot. Now, what does anyone make of my original plan to play back? Decent given the math of folds I get on a low board with no A or K or Qlowlow type boards? Or is it pure spewtastic letting my HUD dictate a play after only 70 hands or so. |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 1:22pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 1897
WPP: 101
Location: The Loser's Lounge
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| Silly String wrote: | | I figured I would get a lot of that. At what point do you begin to play back at these guys? |
| Silly String wrote: | | We do not have any 3betting history |
Not at this point.
| Silly String wrote: | At what 3bet% & what typical holding do you use? Or should I just 4bet bruff?
Another question is how many hands of data do I need to know 11% 3betting is too much. |
Don't be a HUD bot. Someone already mentioned looking into the situations when he 3-bets too much instead of assuming he just does it all the time from everywhere. If he's not getting totally out of line with you specifically, the best play by far is to fold preflop. |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 1:29pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 2936
WPP: 109
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| The question should be is 4bet shoving for value or as a bluff. What hands do you think he's 3betting there? and how does 44 stack up |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 1:30pm Post subject: |
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Straight Flush
Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 4864
WPP: 82
Location: Pwnsylvania
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| Silly String wrote: | | bigspenda73 wrote: | shove PF if he 3bets a lot
calling has to be the most -EV of all the options |
Shoving seems like it lets him play most optimally. I would think a 4bet bluff is better.
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well if you small 4bet are you calling a shove?
4bet jamming is fairly neutral EV, I've done the math, if he's 3betting 11% it might actually be +EV. |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 2:00pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2871
WPP: 112
Location: at your tables, calling your bets
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| Silly String wrote: |
Shoving seems like it lets him play most optimally. I would think a 4bet bluff is better. |
Not necessarily, check-raising the flop does though. At least shoving gets it in with 35% equity or so as opposed to 10% or less. |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 2:22pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 1897
WPP: 101
Location: The Loser's Lounge
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| mcatdog wrote: | | Silly String wrote: |
Shoving seems like it lets him play most optimally. I would think a 4bet bluff is better. |
Not necessarily, check-raising the flop does though. At least shoving gets it in with 35% equity or so as opposed to 10% or less. |
Haha, I was writing a big post about this. Then when I was done I looked back and said fuck it, I didn't make that very clear at all and erased it. I look at the thread again and mcat naturally summed up my paragraph of madness into one neat concise little sentence. |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 2:32pm Post subject: |
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Straight Flush
Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 4864
WPP: 82
Location: Pwnsylvania
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I can't believe this is what the TAGGnits are calling with when I 3bet them sb vs bb
I always wondered wtf you guys had here |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 4:56pm Post subject: |
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One Pair
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 22
WPP: 89
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| No reason to even ATTEMPT 44 here unless there's a 3rd in the pot, calling IN FRONT of you. Otherwise, SUPERfold pf, with equity. |
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