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Posted: Sat, 16 Aug 2008, 4:16pm Post subject: zook's blog
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3316
WPP: 85
Location: practicing mindfulness
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I feel like I haven't been contributing much to FTR recently, despite that fact that I'm a playing professionally and have more time on my hands than usual. So I'm going to start this thing and see how long I can keep it up. My plan is to use it as a daily (or near daily) sounding board for poker thoughts. In every session I learn or relearn something important and I'll try to post it here.
Some background... started playing in fall of 2004, home games->sngs->mtts->low stakes FR cash->midstakes FR->midstakes 6max->shots at highstakes 6max... pretty typical evolution. Reading FTR and posting hands helped me immensely, as did Poker Books, esp Sklansky's NLHE Theory & Practice. Right now I'm rolled for 5/10 comfortably but play mostly 2/4 and 3/6 because the 5/10 games aren't usually that great. I occasionally take shots at 10/20, but only when a fish from my buddy list shows up there.
I have a quality over quantity approach to poker. I don't set hand goals and rarely play more than 1200 hands/day. I only sit at good tables in good seats and play no more than 6 tables at a time.. I'm a firm believer that if you table select carefully and control tilt you can beat any game up through 3/6 with a very basic poker skill set. |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Aug 2008, 4:34pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 1903
WPP: 66
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Very nice man! Good luck! |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Aug 2008, 4:47pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3402
WPP: 70
Location: over there
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| Awesome, looking forward to reading this. |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Aug 2008, 5:22pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 2107
WPP: 97
Location: Toronto'ish
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Yessssssss about time sir!
haha good advice on table selection.. definitely don't do that very well  |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Aug 2008, 6:09pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1137
WPP: 147
Location: Duluth, MN
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| Irisheyes wrote: | | Awesome, looking forward to reading this. | |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Aug 2008, 7:01pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3316
WPP: 85
Location: practicing mindfulness
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The games on Full Tilt were really good today, multiple fish on at least 8 tables at 2/4 and 3/6 which is way more than usual. So today's topic is an easy one...
Playing with fish
Some attention gets paid on poker forums to table and seat selection (although not nearly enough imo) but there isn't a lot said about what to do once you get a good seat at a good table. The answer is pretty easy, which is play as many hands as possible with the fish. If they like to open limp, raise to isolate, if they open raise way too much, 3bet them for value and to isolate. If a reg raises and the fish calls, think before you fold or squeeze... your implied odds have gone up and a hand like 87o might be a call (obv lots of factors involved, including position, stack sizes and likelihood of callers vs. squeezers behind). Set yourself up to play as many big pots as possible with the fish, b/c they're often going to get it in bad.
I could literally pull up thousands of examples from PT, but here are a couple from today...
1. CO is running 30/9/1.5 over 500 hands. Perfect guy to have on my right and we're at a deep table so I'm salivating. I'm raising such a large percentage of my range in this spot it's retarded. (That's right, Special Olympics guy can boycott this blog too.) I think I'm raising close to 60% here. I get a call from shorty BB who's another fish running 50/10/1.
Full Tilt Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter
CO: $1,618
Hero (BTN): $794
SB: $908.10
BB: $124
UTG: $1,659.65
MP: $741.50
Pre-Flop: 5 7 dealt to Hero (BTN)
2 folds, CO calls $4, Hero raises to $18, SB folds, BB calls $14, CO calls $14
I could even raise to $20 or $22 pre I think. I would if he had limped the button and I was in the sb, but I should think about doing it more in position vs. limp/callers.
Flop: ($56) 3 6 9 (3 Players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $48, BB calls $48, CO folds
I flop an oesd and it's a stupid easy cbet. I get called a lot by both players, but they're almost never c/r'ing and I want to play a big pot with CO. Unfortunately he folds, but I gin the turn and stack the shorty.
Turn: ($152) 8 (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets $96, BB calls $58 and is All-In
River: ($268) 2 (2 Players - 1 is All-In)
Results: $268 Pot ($3 Rake)
Hero showed 5 7 (a straight, Nine high) and WON $265 (+$141 NET)
BB showed 9 6 (two pair, Nines and Sixes) and LOST (-$124 NET)
2. I've played some with SB and he's a fish, running 21/3/1.2. I've run over him in this session and others, raising a lot of his limps and cbetting or double-barreling him out of pots.
Full Tilt Poker, $3/$6 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter
Hero (BB): $977.65
UTG: $1,652.45
BTN: $319.50
SB: $342
Pre-Flop: T 9 dealt to Hero (BB)
2 folds, SB calls $3, Hero raises to $21, SB calls $15
Pre-flop is standard even though we're behind his range. We might fold some better hands, it establishes initiative and builds a pot in case we hit something good.
Flop: ($42) 5 6 9 (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $36, SB raises to $72, Hero calls $36
Std c-bet vs. a guy who will call with any piece. The c/r actually worried me. He isn't very aggro post-flop so this could be a set or overpair slowplayed pre-flop. But I reminded myself that I've been running over him, he's a fish and I have top pair. I decide that calling and letting him bluff the turn is best. A diamond turn sucks but I tend to doubt he c/mr's draws... I think his range is pretty polarized here.
Turn: ($186) 6 (2 Players)
SB bets $78, Hero raises to $420, SB calls $171 and is All-In
Not the best turn card and I'm not sure if shoving is right... in retrospect I think I prefer a call b/c his small bet keeps his range polarized and it's hard to imagine what worse hand is calling. But one does...
River: ($684) A (2 Players - 1 is All-In)
Results: $684 Pot ($2 Rake)
Hero showed T 9 (two pair, Nines and Sixes) and LOST (-$342 NET)
SB showed A 5 (two pair, Aces and Sixes) and WON $682 (+$340 NET)
This hand brings up another important point about playing with fish. When you have marginal decisions against them, gambool! One, they're capable of much worse plays than you expect and two, if you don't bust them first, there's a chance someone else at your table will.
Here's a hand from last week to illustrate...
3. BB is a whale, running 60/20/1.5. He's donated over $1k to me already at this table on big bluffs. Basically this guy is a ticking time bomb and with all the deep stacks at the table I want to get his money before anyone else does.
Still, I timed down a bit before calling 250bb off pre-flop with AKs. Eventually I decided I could have snapped. I don't think he ever plays AA or KK like this and there's a chance he's doing it with AQ or worse.
Full Tilt Poker, $3/$6 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter
SB: $894
BB: $2,784.30
UTG: $870.90
MP: $2,511.05
Hero (CO): $1,768.85
BTN: $1,321.25
Pre-Flop: A K dealt to Hero (CO)
2 folds, Hero raises to $21, BTN calls $21, SB folds, BB raises to $87, Hero raises to $282, BTN folds, BB raises to $2,784.30 and is All-In, Hero calls $1,486.85 and is All-In
Flop: ($3,561.70) 5 9 9 (2 Players - 1 is All-In)
Turn: ($3,561.70) 5 (2 Players - 1 is All-In)
River: ($3,561.70) Q (2 Players - 1 is All-In)
Results: $3,561.70 Pot ($3 Rake)
BB showed 8 8 (two pair, Nines and Eights) and WON $3,558.70 (+$1,789.85 NET)
Hero showed A K (two pair, Nines and Fives) and LOST (-$1,768.85 NET)
Disappointing result, but fun hand.
cliffnotes: Find fish, sit on their left, play as many hands with them as possible and gamboooool! |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Aug 2008, 9:36pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 1903
WPP: 66
Location: Richmond, VA
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good notes  /  last hand was really really gay |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Aug 2008, 10:17pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 3816
WPP: 142
Location: Ballarat, Australia
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| Quote: | | If they like to open limp, raise to isolate, if they open raise way too much, 3bet them for value and to isolate. |
Do you worry much about table position (as against position v's fish) when doing this? |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Aug 2008, 11:07pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3316
WPP: 85
Location: practicing mindfulness
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| bjsaust wrote: | | Do you worry much about table position (as against position v's fish) when doing this? |
If I understand what you're asking, not really. I tighten my range a little if I'm out of position b/c fish are going to call a lot and it's harder to win pots oop. But that situation doesn't occur that often b/c he has to open limp in LP and it has to get folded to me in the SB or BB. When an laggro fish open raises in LP I just 3bet a balanced range (no crap) from the blinds so I don't mind a call.
Some regulars will notice your constant iso raises of the fish and 3bet you lighter, but that just provides good opportunities for light 4betting.
If I didn't answer the question, please clarify... |
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Posted: Sun, 17 Aug 2008, 12:43am Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 128
WPP: 84
Location: NY
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Wow, that kind of money is mind boggling to me, but I'll try to think of it in $10NL terms.
I've learned a lot already and I look forward to further posts! |
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Posted: Sun, 17 Aug 2008, 2:55am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3402
WPP: 70
Location: over there
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| Good hands. I often make it 1 bb extra when I'm isolating fish to create a bigger pot and make it more difficult for the regs to 3bet me. The only problem I find with the strategy is that if a good reg does realise that you are constantly trying to isolate a fish he will 3bet you more and the bigger initial raise size you used makes it more difficult to play back at the regs constant 3betting because of the SPR. |
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Posted: Sun, 17 Aug 2008, 3:32am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 3816
WPP: 142
Location: Ballarat, Australia
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I mean more like he limps UTG and we're to his left. So we have position on him, but we risk being OOP if we're called by anyone else other than the blinds.
I've had a few times recently where I have great position on a weak player, but because I avoid playing a wide range against him unless I'm in LP I dont feel like I'm making the most of the good relative position. |
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Posted: Sun, 17 Aug 2008, 3:49am Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17644
WPP: 82
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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| My god, I thought I was pretty crazy with isolation. 57o is just too weak for me. That said, I like to isolate limpers with 10x to make a bigger pot (when I'm sure I have the best of the flop fold equity) and make it harder for my opponents to follow me into the pot with speculative hands. |
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Posted: Sun, 17 Aug 2008, 8:16am Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 128
WPP: 84
Location: NY
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| How do you actually go about table selecting? Do you watch the table before joining it, looking for fish. Or do you know the fish at your stakes? |
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Posted: Sun, 17 Aug 2008, 10:46am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3316
WPP: 85
Location: practicing mindfulness
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| bjsaust wrote: | | I mean more like he limps UTG and we're to his left. So we have position on him, but we risk being OOP if we're called by anyone else other than the blinds. |
I don't worry about this too much because the regs in my games are generally more likely to 3bet than cold call (often a leak). But there are some good ones that will happily join multi-way pots with fish, so if they're at my table I do need to tighten my range from EP as you described. |
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Posted: Sun, 17 Aug 2008, 10:52am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3316
WPP: 85
Location: practicing mindfulness
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| CBAT wrote: | | How do you actually go about table selecting? Do you watch the table before joining it, looking for fish. Or do you know the fish at your stakes? |
On Full Tilt you can datamine (import hand histories and gather stats by just observing tables) which makes it really easy. On Stars I think the best way is to do it by subtraction. Sit at tables, play for 5 or 6 orbits until you get stats/reads on the players, sit out if there isn't a fish 3 or fewer seats to your right and join a new table. But you shouldn't worry too much about table/seat selection at 10nl, most tables will be good. Just play solid, aggressive poker and valuebet the shit out of your good hands. |
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Posted: Sun, 17 Aug 2008, 2:42pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 998
WPP: 79
Location: New Zealand
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Hey Zook,
Good luck with your operation. Will be following it closely. |
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Posted: Sun, 17 Aug 2008, 9:18pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3316
WPP: 85
Location: practicing mindfulness
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My brain is fried from too much poker. Ran bad in two FTOPS events but good in cash. Lots of fishies out again.
Not going to make a long post, but here are a few interesting hands...
1. I almost didn't bluff this turn but reminded myself that it doesn't need to work that often to be profitable b/c he only has $140 behind. 40% is the breakeven point.
Full Tilt Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter
SB: $244.30
Hero (BB): $406
UTG: $418
CO: $376
BTN: $125.60
Pre-Flop: K T dealt to Hero (BB)
3 folds, SB calls $2, Hero raises to $16, SB calls $12
Flop: ($32) A 8 9 (2 Players)
SB bets $32, Hero raises to $90, SB calls $58
Turn: ($212) 4 (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $148, SB folds
2. Some regs in my games are aggro enough and valuebet thinly enough that I can take really passive lines and still get paid.
Full Tilt Poker, $3/$6 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter
SB: $1,222.65
Hero (BB): $600
UTG: $1,524.45
CO: $678
BTN: $600
Pre-Flop: 2 2 dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG raises to $21, CO folds, BTN calls $21, SB folds, Hero calls $15
Flop: ($66) J 2 6 (3 Players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $45, BTN folds, Hero calls $45
Turn: ($156) K (2 Players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $115, Hero calls $115
River: ($386) 4 (2 Players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1,343.45 and is All-In, Hero calls $419 and is All-In
Results: $1,224 Pot ($3 Rake)
Hero showed 2 2 (three of a kind, Twos) and WON $1,221 (+$621 NET)
UTG showed A K (a pair of Kings) and LOST (-$600 NET)
3. One I played badly. I flatted pre to keep the SB megafish in the hand. He's donk potting a much wider range than you'd expect here but the BB cold call has to be JJ+ so I think I can find a fold on the flop. BB tanked before overshoving, even getting like 5:1 with AA, so maybe it wasn't terrible.
Full Tilt Poker, $3/$6 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter
Hero (UTG): $605.60
CO: $1,183.75
BTN: $609
SB: $937.10
BB: $1,198.95
Pre-Flop: K K dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero raises to $21, 2 folds, SB calls $18, BB raises to $84, Hero calls $63, SB calls $63
Flop: ($252) T 2 J (3 Players)
SB bets $252, BB calls $252, Hero raises to $521.60 and is All-In, SB calls $269.60, BB raises to $1,114.95 and is All-In, SB calls $331.50 and is All-In
Turn: ($2,479.80) 4 (3 Players - 1 is All-In)
River: ($2,479.80) J (3 Players - 1 is All-In)
Results: $2,479.80 Pot ($3 Rake)
Hero showed K K (two pair, Kings and Jacks) and LOST (-$605.60 NET)
SB showed A J (three of a kind, Jacks) and WON $2,476.80 (+$1,539.70 NET)
BB showed A A (two pair, Aces and Jacks) and LOST (-$937.10 NET)
At least the megafish sucked out |
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Posted: Sun, 17 Aug 2008, 11:29pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17644
WPP: 82
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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The fish sucks you in.
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
1,607,340 games 0.050 secs 32,146,800 games/sec
Board: Td 2c Js
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 51.552% 49.52% 02.03% 796018 32593.00 { TT+ }
Hand 1: 22.407% 21.71% 00.69% 349008 11154.00 { TT+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 2: 26.041% 23.91% 02.13% 384348 34219.00 { KdKh } |
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Posted: Sun, 17 Aug 2008, 11:45pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3316
WPP: 85
Location: practicing mindfulness
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| oooh, thanks for that Fnord |
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Posted: Mon, 18 Aug 2008, 12:00am Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17644
WPP: 82
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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| That said, it's never a happy time when you need to stick the better part of a buy-in into the pot only because of the money already in the pot. |
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