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Posted: Thu, 21 Aug 2008, 5:22pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239
WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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| good thoughts on countering light squeezers |
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Posted: Thu, 21 Aug 2008, 8:34pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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Clawed back to $350 short of even this afternoon, thanks to a megadonk at two deep 5/10 tables. I kept thinking about how nice it would be to finish the day in the green after the horrible morning I had, but since reading Tommy Angelo's book I've been trying to improve my quitting decisions. My current quitting strategy is to start evaluating the quality of my game and tables ~90 minutes into the session. If my tables are average and I'm up or down a large amount, I quit. Idea being that if I'm up a lot I want to book a big win and if I'm down a lot there's almost no chance I'll get unstuck before I get tired and stop playing my best. If my tables are above average then I'll keep playing until I notice myself spewing or losing focus. Every 10 minutes or so my table and game standards increase so that for me to be playing over 2 hours my tables and game have to be damn good. That rarely happens. So this afternoon it was about an hour and forty minutes into my session and the megadonk busted on both 5/10 tables. I looked around, my other 3 tables were ok, not great, so I quit.
If you haven't read Tommy Angelo's Elements of Poker I recommend it. I guess I'd call it a poker psychology book, but there's a little bit of strategy, a little bit of etiquette, a little bit of everything thrown in. Here's a review thread I started a while ago:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/thoughts-on-elements-of-poker-by-tommy-angelo-t69566.html |
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Posted: Thu, 21 Aug 2008, 8:58pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 18762
WPP: 81
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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I like the Barry Greenstein approach to session management.
When the game is bad, I'm tired, getting pwned, etc. I quit.
If I'm stuck in a good game, I try to win half of it back.
If I'm ahead in a good game, I try to give half of it back. |
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Posted: Fri, 22 Aug 2008, 1:24am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1623
WPP: 101
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Fnord wrote: | LoL, the funny thing is that I think that tell is backwards.
If I'm facing a close decision, anything typed in chat tilts it towards being a stronger hand. |
the way i've always thought it is best done is that you can chat to regs to induce a fold, especially if you don't have much history
with fish a line or two might get them to call, especially if you say something if they are tanking |
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Posted: Fri, 22 Aug 2008, 2:28pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1062
WPP: 101
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
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| Usually when I chat I get folds too.... |
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Posted: Fri, 22 Aug 2008, 4:39pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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Had a crappy session this morning... went 0 for 3 in flips and lost a couple of 35/65's for stacks. Made one good laydown with the 2nd nut straight on the river though I think. And I like how I played this hand:
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($345.40)
BB ($190.40)
UTG ($400.00)
MP ($984.70)
Hero (CO) ($423.70)
Button ($416.10)
Preflop: Hero is CO with 6 7
2 folds, Hero raises to $14.00, Button calls $14.00, 2 folds
Flop: ($34.00) 8 7 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $25.00, Hero calls $25.00
Turn: ($84.00) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $62.00, Hero calls $62.00
River: ($208.00) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $148.00, Hero raises to $322.70 (All-In), Button calls $167.10 (All-In)
Total pot: $838.20 | Rake: $3.00
Results in white below:
Button had Q 10 (flush, Queen high)
Hero had 6 7 (full house, sevens over eights)
Outcome: Hero won $835.20
Out of curiosity, what do you put a pre-flop raiser on when he check/calls this kind of flop? Or a 973 rainbow? Or a 862 two-tone? I'm unsure of my best line when oop with initiative and medium-strength but vulnerable hands. I feel like betting turns them into bluffs to some extent and these boards are great for opponents to bluff raise. I've been check/calling more, which obviously allows opponents to outdraw, but I think they're unlikely to bluff turn overcards because they're still in my range. Thoughts?
I'm out of town this weekend, hovering around even for the month at pokerz, looking forward to grinding some profits next week... |
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Posted: Mon, 25 Aug 2008, 8:46pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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Finally had a nice, easy session this morning where I ran hot, didn't have too many difficult decisions and won lots of monies. It would be nice if the rest of the week went the same way.
One hand of interest... villain was running 16/13/3.5 and although we'd been sitting at a couple of tables together this was the first hand we played together. I'd been active pre-flop but hadn't shown much down. This flop is a good one to c/r bluff and for that reason there's no way I'm folding the flop or turn. The river is interesting... I think AJ is the worst hand he's valuebetting here, but his 1/2 pot bet sizing didn't smell like a set/boat this deep and I figured his bluff % is not 0 here. Still not convinced it's a good call, but I'm a station 
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $10.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (Button) ($1889.00)
SB ($6452.75)
BB ($1795.00)
UTG ($954.00)
MP ($2000.00)
CO ($1294.00)
Preflop: Hero is Button with A J
3 folds, Hero raises to $35.00, 1 fold, BB calls $25.00
Flop: ($75.00) 5 7 J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $60.00, BB raises to $166.00, Hero calls $106.00
Turn: ($407.00) 3 (2 players)
BB bets $222.00, Hero calls $222.00
River: ($851.00) 7 (2 players)
BB bets $465.00, Hero calls $465.00
Total pot: $1781.00 | Rake: $3.00
Results below:
Hero had A J (two pair, Jacks and sevens)
BB had A J (two pair, Jacks and sevens)
Outcome: Hero won $889.00, BB won $889.00 |
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Posted: Mon, 25 Aug 2008, 9:59pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 5683
WPP: 126
Location: Ballarat, Australia
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| Seems like a pretty thin value bet. He has to put you on a fairly weak range to get 3 streets incl check/raise off you and still be good. Then again the fact you considered laying it down makes it seem like maybe its a good line. Strange hand. |
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Posted: Tue, 26 Aug 2008, 3:31am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4170
WPP: 77
Location: Dublin
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| zook wrote: |
Out of curiosity, what do you put a pre-flop raiser on when he check/calls this kind of flop? Or a 973 rainbow? Or a 862 two-tone? I'm unsure of my best line when oop with initiative and medium-strength but vulnerable hands. I feel like betting turns them into bluffs to some extent and these boards are great for opponents to bluff raise. I've been check/calling more, which obviously allows opponents to outdraw, but I think they're unlikely to bluff turn overcards because they're still in my range. Thoughts?
I'm out of town this weekend, hovering around even for the month at pokerz, looking forward to grinding some profits next week... |
if im opp here and lets say you check a T95 2 tone flop id assume you have nothing. if you check a A63 flop ill assume you have strength.
now i think the flops you mention are right in the middle, on 887r,973r,862 2t flops i think we get floated alot more than usual and by alot of very different holdings. so i dont mind c/c flop at all since the pot is smaller when they bet (assuming they bet turn if they float), ur range is v wide, they prob dont know what to do on turn, they will bet tons of their range on flop. ofc hero c/b'ing flop will find it toughish to play a turn tho its likely we double barrel alot which has good and bad points in general.
Ive tried a few c/c flop moves OOP and i always have some trouble playing the turn. ie i think opp cud still be bluffing me or is he VBing me. |
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Posted: Tue, 26 Aug 2008, 3:40am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4170
WPP: 77
Location: Dublin
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| zook wrote: | Finally had a nice, easy session this morning where I ran hot, didn't have too many difficult decisions and won lots of monies. It would be nice if the rest of the week went the same way.
One hand of interest... villain was running 16/13/3.5 and although we'd been sitting at a couple of tables together this was the first hand we played together. I'd been active pre-flop but hadn't shown much down. This flop is a good one to c/r bluff and for that reason there's no way I'm folding the flop or turn. The river is interesting... I think AJ is the worst hand he's valuebetting here, but his 1/2 pot bet sizing didn't smell like a set/boat this deep and I figured his bluff % is not 0 here. Still not convinced it's a good call, but I'm a station
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $10.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (Button) ($1889.00)
SB ($6452.75)
BB ($1795.00)
UTG ($954.00)
MP ($2000.00)
CO ($1294.00)
Preflop: Hero is Button with A J
3 folds, Hero raises to $35.00, 1 fold, BB calls $25.00
Flop: ($75.00) 5 7 J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $60.00, BB raises to $166.00, Hero calls $106.00
Turn: ($407.00) 3 (2 players)
BB bets $222.00, Hero calls $222.00
River: ($851.00) 7 (2 players)
BB bets $465.00, Hero calls $465.00
Total pot: $1781.00 | Rake: $3.00
Results below:
Hero had A J (two pair, Jacks and sevens)
BB had A J (two pair, Jacks and sevens)
Outcome: Hero won $889.00, BB won $889.00 |
Im always thinking though about how bad some players can be and how bad the bets they make could be. a 16/13 player is a bad player tho they know the ABC style of play however I beleive that they do still suck alot.
i like you call on river since i think the 7 card is actually a good card for you since it cuts down alot on the sets he may have. and i think his river bets sizing is slightly timid that he cud do this with JT+ or AIR. Ofc JT+ may not play this way but I do think poor player do weird shit alot of the time. |
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Posted: Tue, 26 Aug 2008, 7:23am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3659
WPP: 76
Location: over there
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| zook wrote: |
Out of curiosity, what do you put a pre-flop raiser on when he check/calls this kind of flop? Or a 973 rainbow? Or a 862 two-tone? I'm unsure of my best line when oop with initiative and medium-strength but vulnerable hands. I feel like betting turns them into bluffs to some extent and these boards are great for opponents to bluff raise. I've been check/calling more, which obviously allows opponents to outdraw, but I think they're unlikely to bluff turn overcards because they're still in my range. Thoughts?
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I feel this is really history dependant. Basically if I feel like I've been picking on a guys cbets a lot and making life difficult for him on the flop when I have position then I will be expecting him to a) start check/folding the flop a lot more as the PFR and b) go for a check/raise or check/call the next time he flops a hand with decent strength (TPGK+) and I will readjust using those assumptions. If I don't feel there is much history between me and a villain who decided to raise preflop and c/c a flop out of the blue then I'm usually putting him on a medium strength hand and I will often fire multiple barrels as a bluff.
Also I agree with your analysis a lot and I think that check/calling with mid strength hands does have merit. It's a rather hard line to balance (and we do need to balance because our perceived range is rather fuzzy) though because we're OOP, are playing without the initiative and are denying ourselves opportunities to gain information about the strength of our opponents range. Hence when we balance with bluffs we get owned more and when we balance with strength we miss value. |
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Posted: Tue, 26 Aug 2008, 11:50am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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Great replies DG and Irish, thanks.
DG: Funny you think 16/13's are generally bad players... I don't play with many but that's not my immediate assumption. I don't think his play is terrible but the river is probably too thin.
Irish: Interesting point about balance. Honestly I'm not sure these spots come up frequently enough to worry about it, but I should take notes just in case. I will occasionally c/c overcards on these types of boards but almost never with overpairs. I usually auto bet/bet/bet overpairs but on really dry boards there might be more value in c/c'ing or at least enough value to feel ok balancing. |
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Posted: Tue, 26 Aug 2008, 11:54am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4170
WPP: 77
Location: Dublin
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| well i dont mean bad as in totally terrible. i guess wot i mean is they are poor. plus im probably tlaking about these players at 100-200nl. whether they change much compared to your stakes i dunno. |
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Posted: Tue, 26 Aug 2008, 12:08pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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| I wasn't arguing, I just hadn't really thought about it. I see a few at 400nl and they aren't the players I worry about and I see so few of them at 1000nl I'm just not sure what to make of them at that level. I can't imagine pre-flop tightness (of 4-5%) can be a very big leak, but I wonder if it's usually accompanied by post-flop leaks as you're suggesting... |
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Posted: Tue, 26 Aug 2008, 2:38pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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Played a very short session this morning, even by my standards, only 372 hands. I quit b/c I was up a bunch, a couple of fish left and I really had to pee. I'll put a longer session in later today I think.
A couple of interesting hands from this morning though...
1. Losing the leveling war with a reg. My history with this guy has gone from I 3bet him a ton and he always folds to he 4bets me a decent amount and I almost always fold. So now I'm ready to 5bet bluff him. But he snapped AQo (yeah, I guess some regs do that griffey & Alexos). Thankfully I still have 41% equity and I sucked out.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($889.35)
Button ($400.00)
SB ($638.20)
Hero (BB) ($406.00)
UTG ($400.00)
MP ($400.00)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 6 5
3 folds, Button raises to $14.00, 1 fold, Hero raises to $48.00, Button raises to $116.00, Hero raises to $406.00 (All-In), Button calls $284.00 (All-In)
Flop: ($802.00) Q 5 6 (2 players, 2 all-in)
Turn: ($802.00) 6 (2 players, 2 all-in)
River: ($802.00) 3 (2 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: $802.00 | Rake: $3.00
Results below:
Button had Q A (two pair, Queens and sixes)
Hero had 6 5 (full house, sixes over fives)
Outcome: Hero won $799.00
2. Why datamining is pure gold Jerry. Villain was running 48/28/4. This was my first hand at the table and his last 
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $6.00 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($609.00)
MP ($1174.50)
Button ($497.00)
SB ($600.00)
Hero (BB) ($600.00)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 2 A
2 folds, Button raises to $12.00, 1 fold, Hero calls $6.00
Flop: ($27.00) A K 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $6.00, Hero calls $6.00
Turn: ($39.00) A (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $6.00, Hero calls $6.00
River: ($51.00) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $473.00 (All-In), Hero calls $473.00
Total pot: $997.00 | Rake: $3.00
Results below:
Button had 5 3 (one pair, Aces)
Hero had 2 A (three of a kind, Aces)
Outcome: Hero won $994.00 |
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Posted: Tue, 26 Aug 2008, 3:41pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4170
WPP: 77
Location: Dublin
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| im not arguing zook |
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Posted: Tue, 26 Aug 2008, 4:03pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1062
WPP: 101
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
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| zook wrote: |
Flop: ($34.00) 8 7 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $25.00, Hero calls $25.00
Out of curiosity, what do you put a pre-flop raiser on when he check/calls this kind of flop?
Missed overs maybe 70%, monsters 10%, draws 10%, mid and small pairs 5%, random crap 5%
Or a 973 rainbow?
Similar range but a little more weight to a str8 draw if he's capable of raising sooted gappers, etc...and a little less weight to missed overs because they would likely cbet.
Or a 862 two-tone?
More like 30% draws here, except for the combo draws that would bet. Drop monsters and missed overs down a bit to compensate.. |
I may be way off though...[/b] |
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Posted: Tue, 26 Aug 2008, 4:16pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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Thanks cman... I think most regs in my games are cbetting draws of any kind, but other than that I agree.
Nice recent bump in your BR, get yo ass to 1/2! |
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Posted: Tue, 26 Aug 2008, 11:38pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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| Really happy with my afternoon session. Very quickly I was down $2k despite playing solidly. I stayed focused, waited for cards against the fish and won it all back with interest. Really no interesting hands to post. I shoved T9s from the button vs. a light squeezer in the BB, he snapped AKo and held. Not sure how much I have to do this before I start shoving QQ+ for value over squeezes but I'll probably start soon. |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Aug 2008, 4:07am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4170
WPP: 77
Location: Dublin
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| since you said it to me im seriously thinking of mixing some 200nl into my sessions. coming up to 5k now and confident. |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Aug 2008, 7:36am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3659
WPP: 76
Location: over there
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| zook wrote: | | Honestly I'm not sure these spots come up frequently enough to worry about it, |
idk about this. I think it's pretty difficult to adjust to people who play the flop well without doing a decent bit of check/calling as the PFR. I agree with the rest of what you wrote here also. |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Aug 2008, 10:48am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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| Da GOAT wrote: | | since you said it to me im seriously thinking of mixing some 200nl into my sessions. coming up to 5k now and confident. |
Doooo it. GL and nothing wrong with tightening up a little pre-flop when you're taking shots. |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Aug 2008, 11:54am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4170
WPP: 77
Location: Dublin
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| zook wrote: | | Da GOAT wrote: | | since you said it to me im seriously thinking of mixing some 200nl into my sessions. coming up to 5k now and confident. |
Doooo it. GL and nothing wrong with tightening up a little pre-flop when you're taking shots. |
Thanks man for the vote of confidence, ill start checking if the tables are good or mine some sites too. |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Aug 2008, 9:02pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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August is finally coming together for me in its last week. A few big hands from today...
1. Villain is a tagg regular I don't have a ton of history with.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $6.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (Button) ($1194.60)
SB ($1673.40)
BB ($1200.00)
UTG ($1182.00)
MP ($734.60)
CO ($1215.45)
Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, 10
3 folds, Hero raises to $21.00, SB raises to $69.00, 1 fold, Hero calls $48.00
Pre-flop call is marginal, but I'm on the button and have position so meh.
Flop: ($144.00) 9, A, K (2 players)
SB bets $110.00, Hero calls $110.00
I float this flop with a gutshot b/c even though it hits his range hard he's cbetting it 100% so I think I can take it away on the turn a fair amount. Of course if he's good he's double-barreling this board a ton, but this flop hits my range too so a lot of regs give up after firing one barrel.
Turn: ($364.00) J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $282.00, SB raises to $1494.40 (All-In), Hero calls $733.60 (All-In)
This is just such a horrible play by villain. He can't put me on a strong hand after flatting the flop, just draws, weak aces and maybe K's. Almost every draw comes in on the turn so my betting range couldn't be more polarized. He c/shoves the turn guaranteeing that worse hands fold and better hands call. If he thinks I'm bluffing this turn a fair amount, c/c is so much better.
River: ($2395.20) Q (2 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: $2395.20 | Rake: $3.00
Results in below:
Hero had Q, 10 (straight, Ace high)
SB had A, Q (two pair, Aces and Queens)
Outcome: Hero won $2392.20
Lucky hand for me, great example from villain of how not to play a tpgk hand 200bb deep.
2. Villain is an aggro donk. I think one part of my game that's improving is incorporating some passivity and letting aggro players bluff and valuetown themselves. At these stakes even a lot of bad players don't fall for the river check to induce bluffs with missed draws so I went for the two street version.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $10.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($2307.20)
SB ($1124.00)
Hero (BB) ($1100.00)
UTG ($941.00)
MP ($1042.00)
CO ($1010.00)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K, K
3 folds, Button raises to $35.00, 1 fold, Hero raises to $120.00, Button calls $85.00
Flop: ($245.00) 7, 3, 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $180.00, Button calls $180.00
Turn: ($605.00) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $230.00, Hero calls $230.00
River: ($1065.00) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $580.00, Hero calls $570.00 (All-In)
Total pot: $2205.00 | Rake: $3.00
Results in below:
Button had A, 10 (one pair, sixes)
Hero had K, K (two pair, Kings and sixes)
Outcome: Hero won $2202.00
3. And my spewy hand of the day. Villain is a regular and we've built up a decent amount of distrust, but the river is still a fold. He is good enough to turn a lower pp into a bluff here but I'd have to put him on something so unlikely to fold that it doesn't make a lot of sense for him to do it.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $10.00 BB (4 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($1151.00)
Hero (Button) ($1224.00)
SB ($2534.00)
BB ($1000.00)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, 9
1 fold, Hero raises to $30.00, 1 fold, BB calls $20.00
Flop: ($65.00) 3, 2, 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $50.00, BB calls $50.00
Turn: ($165.00) 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $120.00, BB calls $120.00
River: ($405.00) 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $300.00, BB raises to $800.00 (All-In), Hero calls $500.00
Total pot: $2005.00 | Rake: $2.00
Results in below:
Hero had 9, 9 (two pair, nines and fours)
BB had 4, 4 (full house, fours over threes)
Outcome: BB won $2003.00 |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Aug 2008, 10:20pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 5683
WPP: 126
Location: Ballarat, Australia
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| I'm fairly sure that last one is best to check behind. Hard to see many hands calling 3 streets that you're ahead of there. FTR converter doesnt seem to recognize quads :p |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Aug 2008, 10:20pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239
WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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1). good to see 600NL regs sometimes spew huge too lol
2) i think a turn c/r AI would be best if we needed to consider balancing, since otherwise the semibluffs in our turn double barrel range lose a lot of fold equity once our opponent sees us take this line with KK. since villain is an aggro donk i'm not sure what i wrote applies, but it's just something that occured to me while looking at the hand. |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Aug 2008, 11:42pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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| bjsaust wrote: | | I'm fairly sure that last one is best to check behind. Hard to see many hands calling 3 streets that you're ahead of there. |
With our history I thought he was bluffcatching 55-88 enough for there to be value here, but in retrospect I was probably wrong about that. |
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Posted: Thu, 28 Aug 2008, 8:56pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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Played one really short session today... spent the morning dealing with paperwork for a "real" job I have coming up and it's so fucking hot here in California right now that I can't stand to be upstairs in my office anymore. Why they didn't put central air in houses built somewhat recently in an area that's warm most of the year and regularly hits 90 to 100 degrees in the summer is beyond me.
I sucked out on a regular with AKo all-in pre vs. KK and then a few minutes later experienced near instant karma in this hand... villain seemed bad but not horrible, running 28/18/1.5, and I'd seen him make a couple of bad bluffs. I squeezed him on my very first hand of the table, 3bet him soon after and c/r'ed him recently on an AJx two-tone flop, so I was ready for him to play back at me.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $10.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
MP ($1188.00)
CO ($1118.90)
Button ($1343.00)
Hero (SB) ($1267.00)
BB ($1027.00)
UTG ($1015.00)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A, 10
4 folds, Hero raises to $30.00, BB raises to $100.00, Hero calls $70.00
He's been 3betting a bit and I figure this could easily be light.
Flop: ($200.00) Q, 5, A (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $160.00, Hero calls $160.00
But the problem with flatting a 3b oop with ATo against this opponent is I basically can't fold now. I considered c/r'ing but thought he would probably 2 barrel bluff, so I tanked a little and called.
Turn: ($520.00) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $390.00, Hero raises to $1005.00, BB calls $377.00 (All-In)
I'm not sure if c/c or c/r is better here, but his bet sizing made me c/r. I didn't think even this guy would bluff his last $377 into a $1300 pot on the river if I c/c'ed. When he snap called my c/shove I thought I was toast, but nope
River: ($2054.00) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $2054.00 | Rake: $3.00
Results below:
Hero had A, 10 (one pair, Aces)
BB had K, 4 (flush, Ace high)
Outcome: BB won $2051.00 |
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Posted: Thu, 28 Aug 2008, 11:00pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1062
WPP: 101
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
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NH z. If I had flopped TP in the situation against a villain and I thought I was ahead, I'm not sure I have the patience to let him fire the turn, and if he did, I'm not sure I have the guts to call it with TPWK....
BTW, where are you in CA? Didn't know you left Seattle.... |
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Posted: Fri, 29 Aug 2008, 12:08am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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| cardsman1992 wrote: | | BTW, where are you in CA? Didn't know you left Seattle.... |
Bay area, moved down here in April. |
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Posted: Fri, 29 Aug 2008, 7:12am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1062
WPP: 101
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
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| That's a nice area! Expensive (at least in SF and down the coast where I visited)...but vn... |
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Posted: Fri, 29 Aug 2008, 6:13pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 18762
WPP: 81
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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| He doesn't have the Commerce and Hawaiian Gardens by him though! |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Aug 2008, 7:14am Post subject:
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Life Donk
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1710
WPP: 93
Location: running with scissors
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| zook wrote: | | Sit at tables, play for 5 or 6 orbits until you get stats/reads on the players, sit out if there isn't a fish 3 or fewer seats to your right and join a new table. | If I can't have the fish one or two to my right I like to have them 2 to my left more than 3. That way he will be in the blinds when I'm CO/BTN and obv they love to play out of the blinds. Also we can flat call alot of raises on the button expecting the fish to tag along. |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Aug 2008, 10:56am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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| HalvSame wrote: | | zook wrote: | | Sit at tables, play for 5 or 6 orbits until you get stats/reads on the players, sit out if there isn't a fish 3 or fewer seats to your right and join a new table. | If I can't have the fish one or two to my right I like to have them 2 to my left more than 3. That way he will be in the blinds when I'm CO/BTN and obv they love to play out of the blinds. Also we can flat call alot of raises on the button expecting the fish to tag along. |
Very good point. I've been getting annoyed recently playing with big fish straight across from me because it's really hard to isolate them. |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Aug 2008, 12:41pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 3308
WPP: 87
Location: Toronto'ish
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| zook wrote: | | HalvSame wrote: | | zook wrote: | | Sit at tables, play for 5 or 6 orbits until you get stats/reads on the players, sit out if there isn't a fish 3 or fewer seats to your right and join a new table. | If I can't have the fish one or two to my right I like to have them 2 to my left more than 3. That way he will be in the blinds when I'm CO/BTN and obv they love to play out of the blinds. Also we can flat call alot of raises on the button expecting the fish to tag along. |
Very good point. I've been getting annoyed recently playing with big fish straight across from me because it's really hard to isolate them. |
I'm honestly still not convinced by all this. I mean obviously I recognize that in an ideal world we'd be on the left of every fish everywhere. But certainly if there's a big big whale on a table running 50/10, its still better to be on his RIGHT t han not on the table at all??
I don't know.. I need to be convinced otherwise I think.. cause I still feel like it should be +EV.. even if not as much as in a better seat. |
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Posted: Sun, 31 Aug 2008, 3:21pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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| Haven't been feeling the blog this weekend. Posted my August results here. Didn't run well at the beginning and ofc I had a few sessions where I played like shit, but I can't complain. |
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Posted: Wed, 03 Sep 2008, 4:03pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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Got a new desktop and finally got dual monitors and HEM setup. Very, very happy with everything so far. HEM is such a vast improvement over PT2. I've barely scratched the surface, but so far I'm loving all the 3bet stats (obv), the popup stats, the instant hh's and the "Active Player Details" window. I haven't done much self-analysis yet, but that's up next.
September started rough, running bad my first few sessions. Not the suckout, way below ev in all-ins type of running bad, the not getting KK+, not flopping well vs. fish, fish making hands against me, regs picking the right times to play back at me type of running bad. Thankfully one hand today got me back near even for the month. |
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Posted: Thu, 04 Sep 2008, 3:17am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 3308
WPP: 87
Location: Toronto'ish
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| zook wrote: | Got a new desktop and finally got dual monitors and HEM setup. Very, very happy with everything so far. HEM is such a vast improvement over PT2. I've barely scratched the surface, but so far I'm loving all the 3bet stats (obv), the popup stats, the instant hh's and the "Active Player Details" window. I haven't done much self-analysis yet, but that's up next.
September started rough, running bad my first few sessions. Not the suckout, way below ev in all-ins type of running bad, the not getting KK+, not flopping well vs. fish, fish making hands against me, regs picking the right times to play back at me type of running bad. Thankfully one hand today got me back near even for the month. |
How big are the dual monitors? I need me a couple new monitors!
Oh and sick hand.. mannnn I've never had set over set over set before. I feel like I'm due. I've never even been on the losing end of it before! |
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Posted: Thu, 04 Sep 2008, 11:16am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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| griffey24 wrote: | | How big are the dual monitors? I need me a couple new monitors! |
Main is 24" which I can 6-table easily on. Second is my old 19" which is just nice for HEM, my buddy list, etc. |
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Posted: Thu, 04 Sep 2008, 11:18am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1062
WPP: 101
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
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Dang, I'm 8 tabling on a 17" flat.
I suck at life. |
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Posted: Thu, 04 Sep 2008, 4:27pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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Last night I worked through HEM's first two leak finding articles and they were more helpful than I expected. For those of you who don't have it, the articles basically help you use HEM's hand filtering to compare your stats and results with a huge database of datamined players from 100nl to 1000nl. The articles give you winrates for various stats ranges (e.g. winrate goes up with vpip until ~25, it goes up with pfr until ~18, etc. etc.). I was in the highest winrate ranges for most stats but there were a few I wasn't... aggression factor, WWSF, call 3bets and double barrel %. The other thing I noticed is that sc's have been losers for me over my last 80k hands! This surprised me. I'm running way below AI expectation, but even adjusting for that I'm slightly negative.
So these articles reinforced some things that I knew in the back of my mind I should work on but hadn't taken seriously yet... 1) get a little less passive and think more about playing raise or fold poker, 2) call fewer 3bets, esp. oop (HEM's 3bet stats make these decisions a lot easier), 3) double barrel a bit less, and 4) be more selective playing sc's pre-flop. I'm going to do some more analysis, esp. on the suited connectors, to try to figure out how I'm playing them unprofitably, but I suspect it's the combination of calling too many raises pre-flop and then playing too passively with them post-flop.
So I was a man on a mission in my session this morning and played much more aggressively. I tightened up my vpip, 3bet more, 4bet more and folded to more 3bets. I'm really happy with the way I played. Unfortunately I lost a couple of flips and lost a big pot on what I think is a cooler, but that's poker.
Here's the cooler hand. Villain is a 5/10 reg, raises 18% in EP, folds to 3bets 65% and has a small 4b range. So I'm 3betting as a bluff obv. When he calls I put him on a mid pp, decent broadways or maybe a tricky AA/KK. I don't cbet b/c I have showdown value, I have to fold to a c/r and I might get one street of value from missed overs or lower pp's. Thoughts?
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $10.00 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
saw flop | saw showdown
SB ($1005)
BB ($1000)
UTG ($1805.40)
MP ($1987)
Hero (Button) ($1268)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 7, 9
UTG raises to $35, 1 fold, Hero raises to $115, 2 folds, UTG calls $80
Flop: ($245) 9, 3, 10 (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks
Turn: ($245) 7 (3 players)
UTG bets $205, Hero raises to $410, UTG raises to $1690.40 (All-In), Hero calls $743 (All-In)
River: ($2551) A (3 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: $2551 | Rake: $3
Results below:
Hero had 7, 9 (two pair, nines and sevens).
UTG had 7, 7 (three of a kind, sevens).
Outcome: UTG won $2548 |
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Posted: Thu, 04 Sep 2008, 4:30pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1062
WPP: 101
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
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| Definite cooler, I like the turn play a lot against his range as described... |
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Posted: Thu, 04 Sep 2008, 9:11pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558
WPP: 84
Location: right here
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wowowowowowow. Played some of my best poker of the year and had my worst day. Dropped 11 buyins at 2/4 and 3/6  Ran 6 buyins below expectation in all-in situations, and took some big coolers for stacks in 3bet pots (AA<99, AK <QTs, hand above). I'm happy with my aggressive play, I 3bet like a madman, my AF was 0.7 higher than normal and I finished the day positive in non-showdown winnings. Hopefully things will turn around tomorrow.
For laughs, my 2/4 line on the day:
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Posted: Thu, 04 Sep 2008, 9:56pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3659
WPP: 76
Location: over there
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| UL zook don't worry it will turn around soon. |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 4:25am Post subject:
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Life Donk
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1710
WPP: 93
Location: running with scissors
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| I hope it wasn't my telling you that you suck on msn that jinxd you! |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 7:42am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1062
WPP: 101
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
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That 15% W@SD hurts!! Those nights tilt me to no end...
Good sign of mental strength to come out of this looking forward to the next session and knowing you did things right.....good example for small stakes players. |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 1:23pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 1915
WPP: 60
Location: Montreal
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Zooook keep grinding man, just a bump in the road.
I also admire your discipline at analyzing and fine tuning your play, even though u have a sick winrate. Props! |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 1:45pm Post subject:
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Eats babies
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 3894
WPP: 109
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Just to touch on what you said about the HM articles. I ran through the first article when I got HM and it really helped my game to the point of stopping all the losses I was having in non showdown pots and I now run even or up. My problem became my showdown pots, I started being a losing player (12 BI's @$100NL and 10 @ 50NL in 2 months) since getting more aggressive and taking down more flops and turns, because from what I could tell was people were taking better hands to showdown vs me. I was getting slow played more often and building some big pots when trying to semi bluff and second barrel, causing larger than normal mediocre showdown hand losses.
I'm just letting you know what I went through and am still trying to fix. Getting both the showdown and non showdown lines to incline has been a problem for me but I think that you will solve this faster than I can, so let me know what you learn if you have the same problem.
I did do all the articles again yesterday too, and may have discovered a few new problems now, i.e: a high W@SD% and calling too many 3 bets for sure. I also do not fold to C bets and raises enough with TPMK and weak draws. Basically, I still need to be folding even though I am more aggro. |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 3:03pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 1915
WPP: 60
Location: Montreal
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What do you mean by: "Getting both the showdown and non showdown lines to incline "?
I've noticed I have some big leaks in non-showdown pots (its only slightly positive), do you think doing the HEM articles would help? For example I saw a graph of 20BuckSpin i think, and his non-showndown winnings are HUUUUGE. I'm more passive than him, but i'm not sure if I can settle for a "just positive" non-showdown line. What do you guys think? |
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Posted: Fri, 05 Sep 2008, 3:15pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 3308
WPP: 87
Location: Toronto'ish
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zook- unlucky day man, you'll turn it around! Won at Sd 15% is pretty sick running bad 
| Alexos wrote: | What do you mean by: "Getting both the showdown and non showdown lines to incline "?
I've noticed I have some big leaks in non-showdown pots (its only slightly positive), do you think doing the HEM articles would help? For example I saw a graph of 20BuckSpin i think, and his non-showndown winnings are HUUUUGE. I'm more passive than him, but i'm not sure if I can settle for a "just positive" non-showdown line. What do you guys think? |
I've told you this before, but I really think its your style such that your won at SD's are huge and without SD aren't. You c/c a lot and induce a lot of stuff, and as a result you get to showdown a ton. There's nothing wrong with that! |
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FTR25: CakePoker $100 Money-Added Tourney November 25th!!
