WW Halloween Dead Thread

i say do the 2 player conversion and let the thing playout, there's always another ww game to play after

lets just start over with classic recruiting alpha rules. good try trip.

There's no tweaking that can be done to this game? Either way is fine with me.

Trips = epic attempt at an epic WW. Applause

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUEw5WY-Two

If the Alpha were to asplode himself and recruit a handful of regular zombies, the odds would still greatly favor the village because of the angel of death and so forth. At this point you may as well restart.

I think as long as the Alpha role does not transfer, the game is winnable by the villagers.

Nevertheless, this is a very fun and interesting game, lolzzz. Smile

even alpha games are winnable.

+1 epic attempt at epic ww, plz try more different ones

+1 for now just restarting a classic alpha one.

can we cap the # of recruitments?

or just make me "the all powerful angel-triple seer-quad vig bad ass"

so i'd be the next best thing after this

another +1 for the effort. Actively trying to make the games more interesting is better than not. This just got a bit too complicated, and unbalanced.

I'm fine with a restart, as classic WW, classic alpha WW, or even another breed of WW. Probably best to talk through all of the rules first to make sure it's balanced.

I do have some qualms about me killing myself off and then the game turning in a reg WW game though. I mean, the game would be different had the rules been different from the start, so being in this situation probably wouldn't have happened. And I've spent quite a bit of time working out different strats to bend to the new rules. Strat for before we knew about he medium, amending that strat for when we did know about the medium, strat for when we didn't know the alpha transferred down, strat for when we did, etc. I know I'm dead meat anyways, but kinda gay for all of this devising to be totally pointless because the rules are only now being determined as unfair. Especially when I noticed how one sided the medium, seer/vig being intertwined, angel of death, etc thing was from the start.

... looks like both lynch candidates were zombies after all lol

Hey, just thought I'd throw in my $0.02

Lolzzz - taking away the perpetual alpha zombie mechanic, which I think most of us didn't know about at all till today, this format was fine. There really was nothing wrong with it -

The medium acts as a nearly perfect counterbalance to a recruiting alpha wolf. The time gained from successful blocks allows the village a chance to pick out the alpha, and once it does, the game essentially returns to classic WW, albeit with a different village dynamic.

You just got horrendously unlucky with the village being so accurate on days 1 and 2 - SDM blocking a recruit, the village hanging a wolf and the vig shooting the alpha. That's pretty much GG, as it should be. We should really just call this one a village win.

What sucks though is that we likely wont try a similar format for some time, if ever, even though there really wasn't anything terribly wrong about it aside from a few tweaks.

anyhow - my opinion on this is to call it a village win and start a new WW immediately

Very Happy

negro please

If the game is over, then I have a rather large post typed up. If it isn't, then I guess I'll leave it at bay until the game is over.

Imo, I would prefer a new game be started. Not just because of my impending death, but because it's better than totally revamping the entire dynamic of a WW game mid game.

I think on balance restarting with classic alpha rules is the best way out. I think the lesson to be learned from this WW is that rules need to be laid out at the start so that any problems with the rules can be ironed out before we get into gameplay, rather than trying to introduce new rules during the play.
I have to take some responsibility for pointing out how the village could manipulate the rules to its advantage,but in essence the seer and Vig being dispensible totally altered normal strategies., not necessarily a bad thing , just exploitable by the village.
Having said that , spenda not taking part (see rilla and CBC last day on last WW) and then coming up with a feeble excuse combined with a successful seer lookup are the main reason this has got to this stage.

I copy/pasted the rules for WW recruiting Alpha classic: (from the WW March Madness thread)

SDM, the difference there is that once the alpha dies, there is no more recruiting.

Well.. Here's how I see things here.. Yeah, we got a bit unlucky. Whether JKDS just randomly chose to look me up and got his man, or if I made some novice wolf mistake that tipped his veteran radar off, I don't know. I'm thinking the latter, and wouldn't doubt it, as I'm not that prolific of a player that he would randomly chose to seek me, as I'm not going to influence the game dynamic that much. So this can't really be attributed to bad luck.

But not knowing all of the rules was a huge hinderance for me. Much more so than the village not knowing exactly what the medium was going to do. Basically, I had to change my plan of attack 3 or 4 different times, and still never got to implement either one of them. This is all due to finding out the rules at different intervals.

At first, I had no idea that a medium would be able to protect 1/3 (quite alot) of the village any given night. Because of this, a strat was formulated to recruit solid players because even if it was the obvious choice and the solid players would in return be lynched by the village, hell, that's one less solid player putting the pieces together in the end. Not to mention I would get their help while they were alive, and this is needed as I'm still pretty inexperienced with WW. However, the medium was introduced and this was changed.

The spenda BW got going, and then it derailed for me after JKDS called me out stating he was the seer. This threw a huge wrench into things. Spenda was willing to lay down on the sword and get lynched, just so I could make it through the night and hopefully recruit again. We had no idea about the continuing alpha wolf, or else we would have just let me take a lynch, since Spenda was, as JKDS would say, a "confirmed villager". This would have worked out great.

A Keith_MM bandwagon gets going based off of JKDS's incorrect count (easy mistake, but still hurt us). It was pretty obvious at the end that the Spenda/Stax lynch BW had been derailed, and we were going to get a chance to lynch a villager, keep spenda under raps, and allow me to recruit what we thought to be the vig to pull in the seer, thus keeping me from getting shot.

However, this was extremely flawed by the seer/vig being intertwined. As if I would have recruited either one, they would have both been converted. Yet the village would instantly be notified not only by the update post stating that TWO villagers had been converted to zombies, but also by the Angel of Death stating he had all the power now, and thus protecting himself indefinitely leading to a inevitable Village win. So, getting Spenda lynched so there was no medium, and then going after JKDS/vig would have been somewhat useless because the Village still gets to retain the seer/vig powers through the Angel of Death, while also knowing the identity of JKDS. And when they lynch JKDS, they also kill the vig. So that's how that works against us.

Not to mention, the seer/vig knew each other identities. In a regular WW game, had JKDS said he was the seer, and then claimed that Spenda was practically a confirmed villager, I would have had a pretty reasonable argument against him. Given he actively tried to derail a Spenda lynch, stating he was a villager, then he turns out to be a zombie. Seems pretty suspicious. So I could have stepped up, calling him a liar, and maybe even claiming seer myself. However, with this seer/vig dynamic that is impossible. Because the one person that could single-handedly spoil this strat (the vig) already knew if JKDS was telling the truth or not, and thus if I was a zombie or not.

I agree that the medium wasn't a huge problem, and can probably be worked into the game successfully. It does counteract the ability for the alpha zombie to keep on recruiting without deterrence. But the Angel of Death is just too over the top. It sounds fucking badass, but allowing 1 individual to have that much power seems pretty flawed. The beauty of the seer/vig/angel dynamic is the leveling that can take place since the identities aren't known. Taking away that ability and allowing one person to be on the same page with all of the power, just misses that dynamic greatly.

I'm not blaming the outcome on the rules, but to say the rules were balanced, or even only a moderate hindrance for the zombies is somewhat ignorant. There were a million things going against us from the start. It just so happens that the introduction of a re-occuring Alpha makes things a little bit more even. But it was never even implemented.

This can hardly be considered a confirmed Village win, when while play was happening all of the rules were in your favor, and only when things started turning to the side of the zombies, did the game get stopped.

Dude... Calm down, lol.

Fine, Seer/Vig knowing each other is bad for you.

The angel of death thing might have been over the top. We don't really know except in theory.

But the rules weren't the reason you lost. If you fretted from the very start and had to change your strat, that's your problem man. Adapt.

You lost because:

1: you were outleveled by SDM (like he'd be fucking stupid enough to post who he's protecting?!?)

2: you acted like enough of a wolf to get JKDS to look you up

3: Spenda wasn't playing and got himself hanged

'nuff said. Stop acting like the whole world was against you on this one man. I bet you anything that the next time we try a similar format, the wolf side lasts much longer than 2 days. Sorry to be harsh dude, I have nothing against you really, but don't whine so much or blame everyone but yourself when you lose a game this bad.

PS: FUCK classic alpha game, but hey, if y'all have a hard-on for it or something, I'll play - maybe I'll get to be the alpha and lay down the pwn?

Ya. I'll trash it and do a classic alpha werewolf one. I will try something like this again though. I read all your posts and will take them into consideration for future games.

I'll take a quick look at stax's though.

Spenda is whiny and sad his dont say anything strat got him killed. Ya I didn't make it clear or even known the alpha would perpetual. Sorry you had to adjust your strategy? You guys just got unlucky.

Angel of death is sweet because he has to shoot someone every night, and possibly saves a wolf!

I'll work on balancing things for WW holiday/xmas/hanukkah/kwanzaa

Alright new game...

Sweet

but Lolz - please at least put in Angel / Vig / Seer if we're doing classic alpha?

plox?

SDM...why did you choose to protect me? I thought you hated me.

I did think them out. The only unbalanced thing I overlooked was perpetual alpha zombie. Maybe I could tone down the Medium. I took responsibility.

You were complaining to me about the medium I think? The perpetual alpha zombie would give the zombies a hudge advantage. Unless they get discovered early on...

Stax, the simple fact is that as long as there is a recruiting werewolf, the village cannot gain ground against the wolves.

Possibilities:
Villager hung, wolf recruited. -2 villager votes, +1 wolf vote. Advantage: Wolves
Wolf hung, wolf recruited. -1 villager votes, no net change in wolf votes. Advantage: Wolves

The only situation where the village can gain ground before the alpha is dead is if the angel manages to protect a villager from being converted. Chances of that happening are slim at best.

Oh, and of course if the vig shoots a wolf, but they are far more likely to shoot a villager. Razz

Assume nothing Smile

This game is a draw, and a lolzzz_321 defeat Wink

.

Considering how awesome the village did in the face of overwhelming odds, I call it a village win. Smile

*Last edited by XxStacksxX on Tue, 03 Nov 2009, 2:42pm; edited 1 time in total*

rilla was the vig.

and im glad you were suspciious of me, i pretty much decided to come out cuz i figured i overplayed my hand pretty hard.

sheesh you guys are getting WAY too caught up in this.

I lol'd. wp.

I dont get it

he says you haz a vajay-jay. AND IT BLEEDS!

I think it's like those stare-down pics, where they zoom into the eye little by little, but with text.

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