Turning Pro. Potential Pitfalls and advice needed

make sure you play somewhere with Rakeback.

good luck man. keep us posted.

...and Irisheyes, your new avatar is incredible. it makes me want to do the "boat motor" thing

http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/port_lofi.cfm/sound_iid.56768

I can't believe I found this.

Update??

Still 3 weeks from goin full time, work wanted me to stay on a bit and I agreed. if nothing else to increase my bankroll

Bought a few new books and among them a fantastic one written my Mark Blade called "The Essential Guide to playing for a living"

If you are thinking of turning pro YOU MUST BUY THIS 1st. Wish I had although it wouldnt have made much difference to my decision

Anyway Ive got myself all set up now with a proper desk, 21" screen etc set up away fromthe TV and surrounded by my poker musings. Done all my maths etc on my ROI's and all I need to do is get through 100 $50 turbo sng's (my playground) and I'll make about $1280 conservatively a week. Two tabling that'll take me about 25 hours so will leave some time for reflection/study and a few MTT's

My results have been good lately, just missed a couple of final tables (12th/13th) in 700 player buy ins after playing almost perfectly then knocked out with my Ak losing to Aj then my 10-10 to A4. OPR ranking is still just under 98%. Building my roll steadily on the turbo sitngoes, despite burning about $400 when drunk lol must stop that. I only quit that night when I realised I couldnt see my cards Embarassed

I turn into a belligerent hyper bluffing lunatic when drunk hahahah oops

I'll post here after/during my 1st week. My last day at work is 20th October. But i might take off for a short holiday, 8 years with a corporate...think I deserve one

I just found this.

My thoughts: I've been a poker pro on here as long as some of the more distinguished names, and longer than many who have made much more than me. Although my student status exemplifies me somewhat as a pro, I still consider myself one.

First off, BMX, you're an awesome player, but you're like what, 18 or 19? Someone who has never worked more than a part time job at a mcdonalds (or other shitty high school job) doesn't really know how horrible it is to get up at 6 am, go to work and come home miserable, only to do it again tomorrow. You can imagine it, but how can you know truly how it feels? I'm not saying I know this either, but to someone who is middleaged, he must think we live a dream life.

Ilikeaces: Again dude, I give you (and always have) mad props on your success and skillz, and, although like a year and a half ago you laughed at me for 'still going to school' i'm glad to see you are doing it yourself. You two are in one category, whereas myself and most other pros on this forum are in a completely different one.

One of you guys say that you need to make over $100 an hour and another says to have earned $100k before turning pro. This, in my opinion, are two horrible overstatements. You guys know how many years and/or education requirements it takes to make $100k/year or more at a job? The majority of people in this world cant even make 1/2 or 1/3 of that and still survive and be happy. I made like $55k last year from poker, while still in school and turning pro in June. That amount is more than the majority of my family members, all of which are considered middle class. You guys think that if you can't make $100 per hour its not worth, well, thats not true. I'd gladly put in 30 hours a week at $60 per hour than work 45 hours a week for $55k/year.

You don't need to make $100 an hour to be a pro, but you shouldnt be making any less than what you would be at your job (including taxes). $100/hour is equivalent to a 200k/year job, something that is very hard to come buy. If you can do $50 an hour, that's pretty kick ass regardless. You should have at least a year to a year and a half living expenses. Also, have a budget and make sure you are good with money. I think a bigger thing is to have a mental toughness and confidence that when the downswing comes, you can handle it.

Renton (who i consider pretty similar to myself) and cocco_bill have given the most clear cut advice in this thread. My advice on this matter is: do what makes you happy. If you hate your job, fucking quit; they don't care about you and you are replaceable. Maybe poker isnt right for you and maybe its not right for me either. But, you've got the right attitude in that, if you don't make it you lose some salary and you go back and live the way you were. It isnt a matter of life or death, and frankly, I would hate to always wonder "what could have been" if i never went pro.

Good luck.

First post.

I suppose this is a question that all self-employed people face, but has there been a discussion here about getting self-insured? I suppose it's even more difficult than your typical self-employed person when they see your line of work is "pro poker player". It would be ideal to have a spouse who's insurance from work you could piggy back off but none-the-less can any of the pros comment to that end on their experiences to date with obtaining health/dental/life insurance in the US?

Heck have pro poker players even tried to collectively bargin a group plan with any insurance companies?

I feel like there may be a market for professional poker advisors, who would advise on the tax issues, self-insurance, etc.

Anyway, TIA for all comments.

I think it all comes down to what you need to get out of it. I'm in canada, so if I just needed to get away from my 9-5 grind to find something else to do. Part time work making $10k or $15k a year and playing poker may be all I need.(Not me necassarilly) My poker winnings are tax free, so if I'm making $25/ hr x 40=$1k plus benifits then if I can consistantly make $17 / hr x 40= $680 playing poker, I'm about break even minus the benifits. If I take a part time job and make $200 after taxes a week it lowers my necassary income from poker to $480 a week. Now I take into account my commute costs me $75 a week in gas, now my income needed from poker is $405. Meaning if I play poker for 40 hrs a week,( I do that some weeks with a job) I need to make just over a $10 /hr playing poker. Last I checked, that's .2 BB/HR @ $50NL amirite?

I understand the ideas that you guys are saying about needing the bankroll for your living and downswings. But shit man, I'm 42 with 20 years in this industry and need a break. give me something to wish for. I don't need $100k a year, fuck, I've been making just under 60K for a few years now and you guys may not know the grind involved. Is there any guys out there that have lived that dream. I'm 42, have a wife and kid, hate my job, has had to deal with moron bosses and coworkers and need to be home more often just because, I've been there done it, It sucks.

Warpe??? and whoever else was in that 35-54 age bracket???

im only 22, but I definitely know what the 9/5 grind is like.

*Last edited by rusticity on Fri, 29 Sep 2006, 6:03pm; edited 1 time in total*

Thanks for the response Nehmer. I suppose I'll give them a call.

Regarding the OP:

The hourly rate you need to make is definitely relative. It sounds like we have part-timers players/students arguing with someone trying to replicate a salaried job with benefits.

I think we can agree that if we're trying to replicate a salaried job with benefits with an hourly rate playing poker, you can't simply take the current salary divided by 2000 hours and conclude that's what I need to maintain the same quality of life / standard of living.

The question remains then: What's the multiplier for comparing an hourly poker wage with a salried job with benefits. If I earn 100k / year, could I quit and survive off $50/hr online 2000 hours of year cardplaying? Could I replace 50k with $25/hr?

There's pros and cons that can individually affect this conversion rate / multiplier for replicating a salaried job with poker earnings.

Pros to poker. These are personal reasons why one might accept a lower hourly wage playing cards.
1- How much you like your current job?
2- How much would you value a flexible schedule?
3- Does your current job actually require more like 2500 hours instead of 2000?
4- Do you have a long commute.
5- Does your job give your direct practice that will enhance your future earnings (as hours logged at the tables enhances hourly rate earned)
6- Do you have a spouse who's insurance discounts you can piggyback off of?

Cons to poker (why you need to make more per hour than your current salaried job)
1- Variance, poker would be like a sales job, you need reserves, because you don't make the same from month to month.
2- Self-Insurance is higher
3- No benefits (no Bonus/no 401k match/etc/etc)
4- Raises may be guaranteed with your current job.

I'm missing a lot here obviously, but it's a start.

The conservative number I keep hitting at is +50%. I would tend to think, that you might want to be able to replicate your salary/2000 times 1.5 .

So a salaried 50k worker should feel $37.5/hr would leave them very comfortable. A 100k should aim for $50/hr. I sort of think this accounts for the cons, and then on a personal level you can adjust down for any pros (listed above) that affect you on a personal level and would allow you to get by for less.

This relationship also is NOT linear of course. But feels conservatively right IMO (granted an opinion with no particular expertise) for the middle class range. If you're making 25,000 a year you probably don't have much in terms of benefits anyway, so I'd settle for no multiplier, and if I made a ton, well there's diminishing returns, and money really isn't an issue as much as personal happiness is.

Caveat - And it's a big one. This is from a non-pro looking out. I definitely seek feedback from both successes and failures on thought process in this post.

*********
Aside - Sample Sizes

I've searched a bit, but is there a good post/analysis on the number of hands/hours needed to feel comfortable with an hourly rate. I've used the stdev to do some Confidence Interval Analysis, but honestly don't feel too confident about what I was coming up with. If there's a thread out there with discussion on what # hands it takes to get within + or - $X of the true hourly rate, that would be great to look at. TIA.

Hey mate,
a Jafa here. Hope your career is going well. I haven't played the cash tables at Auckland Casino yet. Am I missing out here?

The online poker community will change if this bill passes as the amount of US player will dramatically drop.

The U.S. Congress is Trying to Ban
Online Poker TODAY!!!
THIS IS NOT A TEST - Call Your Senator Now!

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If the Port Security bill passes, with the Internet gambling language included, your ability to enjoy poker online will be at serious risk.

Each member of the Poker Players Alliance has two Senators which are listed below (or click here). They need to hear from you RIGHT NOW! Let them know that you care about your rights to play poker.

Please Call!!! Tell your Senators to oppose attaching Internet gambling to Port Security!
Click Here for your Senator's phone number.

hi, consider not going pro now that the US has made online gambling illegal. A lot of the fish are americans.

potential pitfall H.R. 4954

First of all Good Luck with your future Poker Pro life. In reading this thread I luckily discovered that I am not the only one who has problems extracting money out of the players which are online when its evening/night down-under. My cash games stats are way better when I play on the weekends during the day. I countered that initially by only playing SNG’s and some small MTT’s during the week (where IMHO the players are usually the same no matter what day of the week) but for some reason I have stopped that despite running at more than 25% ROI? Better get back to that.

Also too often I make the mistake of drinking, watching TV, talking to the girlfriend, rolling joints and firing off some e-mails while playing Poker. Hardly +ev as I noticed that the FT is just so much easier to get to when sober and concentrating. My current living arrangements didn’t help either as playing on an old laptop is not much fun. I am looking forward to my new place where I can have a dedicated office again. My plan here is to create a Poker-friendly environment with print-outs, charts, goals, books, big screen, stress ball etc around me.

Going Pro: The only word of caution I can give you is when budgeting, to be as conservative as possible when it comes with your income and a generous as possible you can be with your living expenses. Last year I dreamt of going full time to University but after making budget after budget I just couldn’t comprehend how I could do it without having a major change in my lifestyle and being over 30, I was less willing to go back to flatting, eating 2-minute noodles every day and drinking cheap piss. I like that you will be working part-time. This will help enormously to fight boredom with Poker and paying the bills.

I don’t like to go to the Auckland casino because of the rake structure and also I am under rolled to play the 2/4 tables. At this table I would like to sit down at least with $500 although I am sure (for what I have seen) that I can beat those players but variance would kill me. I play in a couple of home games but I was always more interested to see whether there would be enough support in Auckland to open a Poker Club with monthly meetings, discussion groups, regular games etc? Unless there is already something like this here and I just can’t find their contact details?

Anyway, good luck!! I am 33 and am disillusioned with my work and my career hence my interest in how you will be going on. If you ever need a heads-up or just a cold Monteiths on a hot Auckland summers day then feel free to PM me. I always enjoy meeting new people.

Well .....my 1st week as a professional poker is complete

The 1st day I was down $270, now I had anticipated a greater form of pressure/heightened anxiety when I was losing and poker didnt dissapoint...I actually become so stressed in the back it was affecting my breathing...not too pleasant

In that 1st day however Id been nailed by 2-4 outers quite a lot including 4 games in a row so i just went to bed reminding myself of that

Things improved greatly from there and i finished the week $2316 up which is a great result well beyond what i had hoped for. Converted to NZ $ is over $3000 and thats as much as I was making a month after tax in corporate sales. Would be stoked if I could mantain that but really I was just targetting making at least as much as previous career and not going loco... we will see if it was just a lucky week soon enough I guess. But if can mantain that? Quadrupling my income doing something I love? Puh-lease. id never go back to work lol

Nyehehe

\Have moved up levels as well and now call the $100 and $200 sitno goes my home. the level of play seems to barely improve there from the $50's? I make a point of acknowledging my mistakes to myself (and I make plenty) but boy do some people make some stupid, basic erors

My ITM rate is hovering around the 42-44% , not playing too many tournaments as i recognise the potential volatility there

Wish I was better at multi tabling but i really seem to struggle with 2.... let alone more. Im going to stick to playing 2 when im feeling super alert only. Multi tabling is clealy good for the bankroll but I thinking just as well off to play high limits and play them well

Im not really sure how many hours i put in? Including reading my Poker Books and musing the game? Maybe 60-70 hours I guess.

Dont really care....loved every minute of it. Such a relief to be rid of my bitch of a boss and associated pressure and w*nk-factor. Bundled all my suits into a suitcase. Bye Bye

P.S I am so god damn happy, didnt realise just how much my job was dragging me down Smile

I'll check out and post my stats on the various levels when i get a moment, guts instinct tells me they will be similair

Great start to this week too, up $713 on Monday and up $1217 yesterday. Winning a few $200 sitngoes in a row makes a nice impacton the BR.

Might indulge in an MTT on Stars today I think

Nyehehe

Well I did no good in the MTT's but ended up the week $3289

But this week....Im already down $2000. wow. I am playing like utter shite but getting a few bad beats as well. i tjhink i may have started playing arrogantly and are also not paying attention properly

I guess this is one of the true tests, you can be a good player but can you maintain consistantly good play

Just tuning in from Mexico at the moment. Mate, keep at it. Ups and downs happen. Haven´t `played Poker since Vegas where donkeys rule and suck out on you big time. Still had fun. 3 weeks without Poker makes me hungry.

You had a great start - keep at it and keep us posted!

Ka kite!

So hows it going another few weeks into it?

I'm a kiwi too, just learning at the moment untill I've read enough to get into the real money. Have you had any problems with transfers from kiwi credit cards/banks? What deposit/cash-out methods do you use?

Good to see so many kiwis on here. Keep it up Smile

The only Kiwi Pokerwebsite does not allow Kiwi players which is weird but then their site is really small. I play on Bodog, Titan and Stars at the moment so maybe see you at the tables there.

KiwiPoker doesn't allow NZers because there's a law prohibiting them letting us play. Us playing on overseas sites or vice versa is legal though

Vegas aye? You lucky bugger I LOVE that place, when i was there though about 7 years ago i didnt have a clue about Hold Em... so didnt play

*tried to remember what he used to do with himself before he discovered poker*

lol I have no idea

Well today is the last day of my 1st 4 weeks as a poker pro and Im pleased and proud to report Im up $6,962 US$. Converted to NZ$ thats pretty much triple what i was making in the real world.

I did play a lot in my 1st 2 weeks, probably too much, around 60-65 hours. Started to get quite bad RSI. I went and bought myself a super flash new chair, $750 worth, and a few different shaped and styles of mouse. I also worked that quality over quantity is the way. Id been trying to multitable but really not getting my head around it that well even with just 2. Thing is though, playing the $500/$200/$100 sitngoes ....if you are finishing ITM often enough you really dont NEED to multi.

there is one guy on my site though who is my hero, his handle (rather aptly) is "volumeoverskill" and he must be cranking 8 tables at a time at an ITM only slightly below mine. His is 41 and mine 43.5. he must be making a fortune

So yeah .....Im not him though so im just focussing on playing high stakes and playing it well. ive also lost over $1000 over on stars playing in the Sunday Millions etc. So hopefully one day one of those will pay off. Obviously I am only 1 month into this new venture, but all indications i can see are telling me I am good enough to make it.

silu wasnt it you who came to that game i knew of? Theres another one next wednesday. High rollers/$100 buy in only though

Hey,

First of all good to hear that you are running well. Keep at it mate!

Yes it was me who came to the home game. I love to come but its the night of my cricket practice and I have already missed so many because of my holiday that my place in the team is not guarantued anymore Crying or Very sad

I'm not claiming to be a pro player or to have the ability to give advice on being a pro player. But many of you are either looking at too strick of guidelines or overlooking many factors.

I think many of you are a little off on this.... Jeff, Renton, BMX, and Ilikeaces.

Do you need to make 100K+ a year or $100/hr? Well, No.

Is making 40k, 50k, 60k a year enough? Not nessicarily.

Do yo uneed a certain bankroll or living expence cushion? Probably.

There are so many factors that everyone who is deciding to go pro really needs to weigh for themselves.

What are you making now? To someone who is struggling by working long hours with no benifents at an $8-$10 an hour job, then maybe going pro would be a better idea if you can make $30-$40 per hour playing poker. But if you are making $40-$50k a year with benifiets, you need to be making a lot more. A whole lot more!

Do you have health/retirement benifits? If you currently do (or could with a regular job), what are you going to do about that when playing poker? You need to make a lot more money to make up for the losse of those benifets. What about sick/vacation benifets? I get 10 vacation and 10 sick every year, so that is another 160hours I get paid and don't have to work. That's, on average, over $250 a month I get without having to put in the hours, or that I know I can get paid even if I am sick for a week (how do you think you will do playing poker with the flu for a week, not what you normally would). Now, if you have good benifiets at work, you may need more than $1500 extra a month to cover the health, retirement, sick/vacation benifents your empployeer provides.

Now I have it pretty good (without specifying exactly), lets just say I make $50k a year, have good health and benifits, retirement, the sick and vacation time. I would probably need to be able to make $75k-$80k a year to cover my full compisation at my job.

Will you be able to get loans/morgages? Now, you better plan on buying most things with cash. How easy do you think it is going to be to get a car loan or morgage when you list your profession as a poker player. Hell, even to rent an apartment, many places want employment history and two of your most recent pay stubs as proof that you will be able to make the rent.

So, the typical $50k plus extra for benifiets would not cover it for someone like me. For me to quit my full time job, I probably would need to make something like $100K a year.

And I know I would want to live a leasurely life and not put in the 40+ hours a week I do now. So I would probably only want to put in 25-35 hours a week and be able to take vacations. So I would probably need to make at least $75/hr playing poker.

And I would need have at least 6 months living expenses saved up to help with varience. But even more so because, if the pro poker career is not working, its not so easy to just jump back into the type of job I've got. It will take months to find another job like this.

So for me to turn pro, I would need about $60-75k and be able to consistantly beat the $30/$60 - $50/$100 Limit Games (or equivalent 6-max or NL games) just to make it financially equivilant.

If you've got other oblications like a family and kids, then you are in even worse shape. But if you are a high school kid looking for a good/flexiable/fun way to put youself to college, learing how to beat the poker tables for $10-$20/hour with a $5000-$10000 bankroll would be an awsome route to go. Most of use are somewhere inbetween and we all need to figure it out for ourselves. General, "need $100+ per hour" or "need to make $60K per year" is not adequate.

For me, I have a long term goal of hopefully being able to have enough bankroll and savings and good enough to make $75-$100/hr by the end of 2010. That is when the Space Shuttle Program I am working on will be ending. I'll be married to my current fiancee (hopefully Wink

) who will have a steady income to help cover the most of the monthly bills and help with varience if need be, and who will have a health plan that I can be on. I hope to have a $80k+ bankroll ($50k savings & $30k+ poker bankroll) and be able to constinstancely make $80+ per hour. (now if I were single, I would probably want double that to cover my current job)

That way, when I get laid off, I can take my leasurely time looking for another job in the area, and if it turns out that I'm making a decent buck playing poker, and enjoying it... I just may never find another reagular job while poker is going well.

But my point is, going pro is a lot more complex than most people realize. There is some much to consider. Some poeople overlook health benifits, retirements, etc. Everyone needs to decide for themselfs and their situation wheither it is finacially worth it, or if they have the character to make it as a pro poker player.

Nice [post Newell agree with many of your points

Well another few weeks down and the news is nowhere near as good, starting with the week right after i posted last. I got sick and stupidy decided to play on. Dumped $3900 off my bankroll Sad

Disaster!

Poker really is a bit of a confidence game and I think not feeling my best meant I attracted every Bad beat in the book. Including a one outer on the river at one stage. Of course I think I was playing too many hands which meant I was putting myself in marginal situations more. I also finally accepted I wasnt playing to 100% of my mental capacity but it took me too long to turn off the PC

I fought back the next week with a $1900 win but last week dumped $2000 again. Last week concerns me more. I played SO badly Brick wall

For example a hand I remember =

I was in this hand and leading in right down to th river and someone would put me all in. I would go through what had hapened in on the streets and conclude "ok I think youve got 10-10 and just back doored a lucky straight. I should fold"

Then before I knew it my hand reached out for "call"....the the guy turns over 10-10 Confused

Like....Im reading the hands prefectly but then making oppposite decisions. And this happened all week, dumb ass calling raises pre flop, getting a good flop but then getting beaten later, outs I could complain about except I never should have been playing the f__kin hand in the 1st place!

*sigh*

I am nowhere near dead yet, still showing a decent profit from turning pro but im really worried at this turn of events. One of the tests I have read about being a true pro is to remain consistant in your play and after 6 weeks I am already faltering

I have also noticed an influx of new players who are unfortunately mostly pretty good. I use stats for poker and most of them have an ITM of 40% +. I suspect the yank pros have found a way to use a Canadian ISP or something. Not sure if this is possible? So I guess my early good results were magnified by the US Players being absent just as I launched my pro career?

I am now contemplating getting part time work so when i do sit down for poker I am amping for it, not playing cos i know I have to/its my job. i know when I play my best Im good enough, but id love to hear how other guys have found ways/mental triggers to mantain consistantly good play

'Yanks' can still play.

By your "" Im fearing yank is percieved as a degoratory term? I dont mean it as such

And how do you mean they can still play? I dont see any?

Oh, I though you meant online poker in general, but I assume you mean Party and P a r ad i s e Smile

. Yeah, unless they get a foregin mailing addresses, a telephone rerouted to their US phone, and a proxy IP then they are out of those sites Smile

.

Apologies, and gl sir.

No worries, easy misunderstanding Smile

Im fighting back over here, dropped down to the 50s as it semed the same old faces/a bunch of about 6/7 other pros were always on the 100s/200s

I seem to be able to get away with 2 tabling the 50s too, straight forward poker seems to do the trick. Also gave myself stern talking to about my laziness and loose calling

"So...if you dont wanna play good poker...would you rather go back to work instead TROG DOR?

Sad

nooooooooooooo *goes back to thinking about what hes doing and actually bothering to put people on hads*

rock on.....I think I need a mentor

11 weeks into full time poker and Im still alive baby Laughing

Currently averaging $950 US a week, can barely believe how much more sophisticated my game has become even in the weeks since I quit work. Just concentrating on finding those holes and plugging them. Still making mistakes, just not as bad ones. ie I normally have to debate an occurance for awhile and/or pokerstove it before deciding it WAS a mistake. A good sign that its a small one

One of the keys is definetly establishing consistantcy in your play, got to act like a professional ALL THE TIME. I dont actually do that btw, I cant help playing when Ive had a few drinks.... cos i love it, Nyehehe

(I like to pretend Im Mike Matusow, and tell everyone how awesome I am and what donkeys they are in the chat box) but I just make sure I drop down to the 50's and dont play utterly bladdered. Very rarely a profitable session.....but yes apart from that I try to make sure Im at the top of my game and dont make calls just for the hell of it, or "to see what hes got", or cos I feel good about K-10 suited this time

Loving this lifestyle, meeting with the accountant next week to decide how to handle mr taxman who has already rung me to find out what im up to Embarassed

Hi mate!

I hope everything is OK! I was just wondering how you're doing with your new profession? Wink

Cheers!

Well. Everything Ive written so far in this thread has been 100%truth so I'll continue in that vein as I believe this will be all good information for others considering venturing into this full time

Up to 4 weeks ago…everything was sweet as, was still averaging just under $1000US a week and was only really playing about 20 hours a week mixed with about 3 hours study/reading

Then the rot set in something chronic…had one week were I admit I simply switched off, I play high stakes and you just cant_do_that ….so got nailed to the tune of about $1600

End of the week I analysed that had happened and was ready to rock out the A game and did…only to encounter the worst run of beats I could have possibly imagined. The deck would either be stone cold and I would blind out until I had to make a desperate and unsuccessful move (remember Im a sitngo and tournies player only) OR I would encounter a terrible beat OR I would simply lose a 40%-60% EVERY TIME …OR I would have a weird game were I would double up quickly, hit some monsters, be looking sweet as to at least the top 3 and then something bizarre would happen…like hitting an set on the flop only for someone else to have hit an overset…and I would finish 4th. And I generally finished 4th A LOT

In tournies quite a few times I got myself in great position, say 100-200% average stack in 10-20th spot with 1st prize being $18,000-$30,000, and after 5 hours of flawless poker would suffer a terrible beat to earn a paltry few hundred

I started to (half seriuosly) blame the site…so switched sites and the same thing, had two home games with mug friends of mine and finished 3rd (top 2 pay) with two terrible beats in both games after dominating th table. Poker just turned on me….simple as that

Of course…while all this was going on, I definetly started to tilt a bit and chase and play poorly, but I was fully against it….you cant lose 90% of your flips and get bad beat all the time and never BB anyone else…. and survive

Anyway….wah wah…I play a lot of turbos so it was just a really REALLY bad run, and the standard deviations on turbos variances are greater. I know that

So what happened then was I was afraid to play. I was so gutted at all the beats poker was scaring me, everytime another beat came I was just getting FURIOUSER and FURIOUSER. It was really depressing and I started hating the game

So here I am….4 weeks later Ive dropped $4500 and Im down to having earnt just over $600US a week since I started, now that’s fine money wise…totally livable (add 30% to convert to NZ$) but heres my conclusions

# My bankroll wasn’t and isn’t big enough, if this goes another month Im pretty much broke

# Im NOT giving up…Im going to get part time work though, not so much for the money but I really miss people contact and “doing stuff”. Even if it was something mundane like stacking crates. At least I could see the stacked crates and know Ive done something. With poker your bankroll and OPR ranking grows but that’s about it

Some of the pitfalls are

# This is a seriously odd way to make a living. You see nobody all day…hey even if my flatmate wanders in and tries to talk to me at the wrong time he gets grunted at.

I also think when it comes down to it… don’t have what it takes. I have the game, sure. But it takes a special type of person to sit there grinding away day after day., and I would simply get bored. Even at my peak I couldnt hack playing much more than 8 hours a day (unless I was sticking shit up my nose…but that’s another story)

So yeah…that’s where Im at Smile

I’ll say one more thing too. I used to LOVE poker, I would scream home from work thinking “poker poker poker poker poker poker poker poker poker poker poker” and switch on the PC immediately and play till I knew I had to go to sleep (to hack the real job in the morning)

Not anymore…I go through stages of liking it, thinkings it ok, and fucking hating it…and im sad about that. I lost my passion

All good though….no regrets, I think its possible I just need to go back to work for a bit to appreciate playing full time again. And the great thing is if I end up in a role I don’t enjoy I am free to do “the march out” at any stage cos I know I can make good money playing poker

Anyway....peace out ....and good luck all. and anyone considering turning full time PLEASE read Mark Blades "professional poker- the essential guide tomplaying for a living" before you do

Follow his advice about Bankroll Management...because I didnt (not really anyway)

Good to see you're doing ok-ish!

I think you need to factor into your br/spending the times when you'll just want a few days off.. I think you're better off letting off steam at 10NL than at high stakes! It's nice to see someone else's struggles and difficulties, I wouldn't mind full timing it one day.

Hey mate! Thanks a lot for your great post. I think it's a great description of the potential pitfalls of becoming a pro. Although I am not pro (still a low stakes grinder) I still play every waking hour. I come home at 6 and play until 10 when my wife comes home. On weekends I often play the whole day while the sun is shining outside. Now I had enough. Last Sunday I had this aggro fish to my right of whom I took 2 stacks. So it would be +ev to stay as long as he stays but as soon as my friend rang and asked if I wanted to go to the movies I immediately turned off the PC. I needed the human contact more than I wanted the money. Brian Townsend was talking in an interview about the need for balance in the life of a poker pro and I wholeheartedly agree.

Kia kaha!!

P.S. Please let me know if there are any homegames (you know which ones) are going on.

Hey silu

Did you get the recent email about the game on the 9th May? If not email me and I will forward it to you

Very Happy

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Turning Pro. Potential Pitfalls and advice needed

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Turning Pro. Potential Pitfalls and advice needed